E9 values are unfounded and on shaky ground

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Strato102

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Why, becuase this car went for 75,000 bucks. That's it. The market doesn't know what it's looking at and it is not based on intelligent scrutiny. This wasn't my car and had no interest in it. I hope the buyer joins here. We can use his brains.

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1973 BMW 3.0CS 5-Speed

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Strato102 said:
not based on intelligent scrutiny.
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For me, the classic car market is equal parts rational investing and emotional illogic. The latter is evidenced by the % of private owners who don’t make a profit on their restorations. I hope the vast majority of e9 buyers are doing this as a passion and not an investment (which can lead to bubbles). Are we in a bit of a bubble? I think so. But then I thought 911’s would never reach and retain the heights they have achieved.
 
Strato102 said:
The market doesn't know what it's looking at
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The pictures of this car were so bad, potential bidders had no idea what the car actually looked like.

The BaT description was useless (as usual) but the seller did not do much to more fully describe the car.

The seller didn't answer many of the questions posed.


It is tough to buy any car long distance, sight unseen. It is especially tough to do this with an expensive car. Potential buyers did not feel comfortable that they knew what they would be getting.
 
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I think the car went for a fair price.

If the suspension components were freshened up and headliner new, could have hit $90k.

But it had a clean engine compartment, clean interior, and nice color combo and what appears to be essentially rust-free body, $75k is good price, but not a steal by any means.
 
teahead said:
I think the car went for a fair price.

If the suspension components were freshened up and headliner new, could have hit $90k.

But it had a clean engine compartment, clean interior, and nice color combo and what appears to be essentially rust-free body, $75k is good price, but not a steal by any means.
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Add professional photos to the mix and you'd hit 100k
 
bmw2800cs.com said:
Add professional photos to the mix and you'd hit 100k
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Agree completely. No pictures of critical areas that should be seen before bidding. Maybe seller was contacted, pictures were requested and it was a horror show. Don't know for sure. What pictures that were there were indicators of a spectacular car through and through. My point is I have seen far worse cars with all sorts of lipstick go for more. These cars had sexy write ups and, may I say, 16" wheels. Lots of gushing about stance, etc. and the bidding war was on. That's the market and a little scary about the legs that it has. As horrible as they are (kidding) at least 911 people care about original details and seem to see through what a lot of BaT bidders don't when it comes to E9s and 15 year old Lexus SUVs for that matter. If that car was as good as it looked everywhere it was easily a $140,000 car. It wasn't properly shown and it appears, APPEARS, buyers couldn't figure that out. Deficient knowledge appears to be the driving force in E9 values if this is the case here. IF (disclaimer).
 
Strato102 said:
Agree completely. No pictures of critical areas that should be seen before bidding. Maybe seller was contacted, pictures were requested and it was a horror show. Don't know for sure. What pictures that were there were indicators of a spectacular car through and through. My point is I have seen far worse cars with all sorts of lipstick go for more. These cars had sexy write ups and, may I say, 16" wheels. Lots of gushing about stance, etc. and the bidding war was on. That's the market and a little scary about the legs that it has. As horrible as they are (kidding) at least 911 people care about original details and seem to see through what a lot of BaT bidders don't when it comes to E9s and 15 year old Lexus SUVs for that matter. If that car was as good as it looked everywhere it was easily a $140,000 car. It wasn't properly shown and it appears, APPEARS, buyers couldn't figure that out. Deficient knowledge appears to be the driving force in E9 values if this is the case here. IF (disclaimer).
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Good to know about the 16 inch rims and stance
 
Agreed that this price is directly attributed to effort, or lack thereof. Not everyone has time, skill, or money to get their undercarriage prepped for a sale. They can pay for a decent photographer though.

Let me just repost this picture that @HB Chris recently added of his Chamonix.

Not a full restoration, but he
is going through the steps to make a highly safe eye pleasing vehicle that will present well at a show or an auction. A ton of work I can imagine, but it will pay dividends if/when the car sells.
D149E7AB-201D-4A8A-B983-9FAA96A1AA7C.jpeg
 
Strato102 said:
Why, becuase this car went for 75,000 bucks. That's it. The market doesn't know what it's looking at and it is not based on intelligent scrutiny.
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Again, I believe this car was not well represented and pictured. I don't think it is the market that "doesn't know what it is doing". In fact, the market ALWAYS knows what it is doing. The market is the market. We may not like what it is doing, or we may not think it should be doing what it's doing, but it is what it is.

Here are a few nice, stock appearing E9s that were well represented and pictured.

This one went for $203,000

$180,000

$175,000

$166,500

$162,000

$155,000

I would think the above cars are the market for nicely done, stock appearing non CSL E9s...not the example you presented.
 
If a buyer isn't willing to spend the time or money to get a classic car looked at before they purchase then it's on them. Has zero to do with the market and everything to do with the buyer(s). Same with real-estate, art or any other used object with a perceived value.
 
HB Chris said:
The Alex Cartio coupe at $175K had tons of filler on the tail panel while being worked on in someone‘s backyard.
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Perhaps you are referring specifically to bodywork. I don’t immediately associate shadetree work with lack of quality. There are a numerous members on here that operate at or above the level of the most well known shops.

Just a handful of members with forum contributions or top dollar sales to backup the statement.

Apologies in advance for not listing every forum all star. You know who you are. :D

@autokunst
@Dick Steinkamp
@eriknetherlands
@Gary Waggoner
@HB Chris
@Marc-M
@Mike Pelly
@OCCoupe
@paul cain
@Wladek
@Sven
 
Markos said:
Perhaps you are referring specifically to bodywork. I don’t immediately associate shadetree work with lack of quality. There are a numerous members on here that operate at or above the level of the most well known shops.

Just a handful of members with forum contributions or top dollar sales to backup the statement.

Apologies in advance for not listing every forum all star. You know who you are. :D

@autokunst
@Dick Steinkamp
@eriknetherlands
@Gary Waggoner
@HB Chris
@Marc-M
@Mike Pelly
@OCCoupe
@paul cain
@Wladek
@Sven
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I was. You don’t need 2 gallons of filler to apply a skim coat to correct imperfections.
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
Again, I believe this car was not well represented and pictured. I don't think it is the market that "doesn't know what it is doing". In fact, the market ALWAYS knows what it is doing. The market is the market. We may not like what it is doing, or we may not think it should be doing what it's doing, but it is what it is.

Here are a few nice, stock appearing E9s that were well represented and pictured.

This one went for $203,000

$180,000

$175,000

$166,500

$162,000

$155,000

I would think the above cars are the market for nicely done, stock appearing non CSL E9s...not the example you presented.
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Hello all, this car is very nice car but the problem is all the attention was out side the car interior is very good and paint is nice but under the car is bad engine bay is not good and oil leak that's why didn't go more than a 75K spend a little put up a nice set of wheel renew under the car and engine bay and then sale it but this is my opinion.
 
This leads to a question. If one isn't an experienced seller, and doesn't have the acumen to take great photos and present the car in its best light, how would one go about selling it? Through a third party classic car dealer? Or pay a professional to get it ready for sale and list on BaT? Any recommendations if one was interested in selling?
 
RDSChicago said:
This leads to a question. If one isn't an experienced seller, and doesn't have the acumen to take great photos and present the car in its best light, how would one go about selling it? Through a third party classic car dealer? Or pay a professional to get it ready for sale and list on BaT? Any recommendations if one was interested in selling?
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I would suggest doing a dry run on this forum. Take (or ask a talented friend/family member to take) the best possible photos of every area that is often discussed on the BAT auctions and post them here. And ask the following question: "I would like to sell my car. Here are some photos of it. What areas do you guys see as potential issues and what should I do to remedy them?". Put your thick skin on, be ready to hear about problem areas you never suspected but you will get lots of genuine quality suggestions without the stress of an actual sale process.

At that point, evaluate how or if you want to address the issues that have been identified. Once you have made that decision, hire a pro photog to put your car in the best light. When you put it on an auction site, you will at the very least be prepared for any criticism and be ready to answer honestly and appropriately.
 
First thing is to detail the heck out of your car. Pay attention to the engine bay and trunk and undercarriage, because potential buyers will. You don't have to pay a seller's agent to do this - Chicago surely has a multitude of good detailers you can use. Don't start showing it to people and then say "I'm going to clean that up." Your car will be more desireable if you make it look its best before you mention selling it. Keep it sparkling clean.

Bo beat me to the punch on the do a dry run here suggestion. And his suggestion to ask someone you know to take pictures is a good one. Then, fix the little things that are highlighted from the dry run; any money you spend will likely easily come back in increased sales price. And be prepared to disclose up front anything you decide not to fix (and adjust your price accordingly).

You might get luckly and find a buyer through your dry run. I found my car here.
 
Bmachine said:
I would suggest doing a dry run on this forum. Take (or ask a talented friend/family member to take) the best possible photos of every area that is often discussed on the BAT auctions and post them here.
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We are mixing two topics, maximizing the sale price of a given car with our conviction of the overall E9 price trends.
Doing a dry-run on this site is a great idea. But beware, I once asked an Alfa expert his opinion before buying a beautiful 1971 step-nose, and the expert stepped in and bought it himself.

On the future trends, you know my nickname is spleen (thanks Stan), and my vile points to a few you-know-who's that have driven us to a reality where "cash is trash", so yes, the trend is positive for E9s regardless of how precise your entry point is. The only danger I see is that some ideologues start scapegoating classic cars as the environmental "original sin", and we end up with decorative art in our garages. At that point prices should drop.
 
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