Engine Timing Woes

[Ohmess]

Was trying to set my engine timing after the tranny swap and was not happy at all with the way she was running, so, I began to dig a little deeper.

Looking at this:

I turned my car until:

Then, looking at my flywheel, I see this:

If I spin the engine until the TC ball is centered in the window (sorry, my picture washed out), I observe the following:

Harmonic balancer timing marks are not aligned:

And this looks like TDC because (1) both number one cylinder valves are open equally:

And (2) both number six valves are closed:

Moreover, according to this picture:

my cam sprocket doesn't look right either (again, with the TC ball on the flywheel centered in the window):

I don't see how I could have moved this. There was a dowel on the flywheel, so there was only one position in which I could have installed it. Even if I had moved the engine while taking off the old flywheel (which I don't think I did), moving the crankshaft should not have changed the relationship between the crankshaft and the cam.

I removed chain tensioner piston and spring at one point, and had the timing cover off. I have also replaced the distributor. I don't see how any of this could have caused what I am seeing.

The head on my car is not original (my head has a 1979 date stamp on it), so I know the head was off at some point.

Is my timing chain "off a tooth"?

Any engine gurus care to help a brother out?

 

[HB Chris]

Remember, crank turns twice for every single rotation of cam. The TDC marks on flywheel and damper will match the cam sprocket if done properly. Flywheel has a dowel, damper has off centered holes so they can't be messed up. You say number 1 valves open, they should be closed. Never turn crank backwards, only clockwise to ensure proper alignment as well.

If cam mark is still off you could be off one tooth, timing cover will need to come off to slip sprocket one tooth, probably easier with tensioner removed as well.

 

[Ohmess]

I feel like such a rookie sometimes. So, rotating the engine 360 degrees to where I have my harmonic balancer once again here:

But with (1) number one CLOSED!!!:

And (2) number six OPEN!!!:

This is what I see when looking at my flywheel:

Rather than pointing to the space just above TC, I believe the arrow in the bell housing is supposed to be pointing to the little ball below the TC (below being to the right in my picture), and that the letters should be visible above (left of) the ball.

I want to make sure my diagnosis is correct before I begin surgery.

 

[Stevehose]

This may help:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12831

At TDC your cam lobes of cylinder #1 should point down to the head away from the cam. Cylinder #6 cams should be pointing up.

So at TDC you should see the harmonic balancer line up to the chain cover notch, the cam lobes of #1 pointing down, the "0" TDC ball appears in the timing hole (not the "Z" ball), and the cam chain gear lined up as in the above post. See what you can discover then check back, my chain gear was a tooth off.

 

[Ohmess]

Will do, but it will have to wait until we get back from dinner. Even my wife's patience has limits.

 

[Stan]

Will do, but it will have to wait until we get back from dinner. Even my wife's patience has limits.

If only her sisters were around, your absence would not be noticed:shock:

 

[sfdon]

Cycle or "roll" your engine 3x clockwise looking towards the rear of your car. Never go backwards.

Set The crank timing exactly at TDC.

Verified number one camshaft lobes are down.

Take a long screwdriver with a dab of wet spray paint and mark the flywheel

Remove the top bolt of the cam gear and insert a 40mm bolt instead and thread in as far as possible
Take a pic of the bolt and post it.

 

[Ohmess]

I didn't have time to completely follow Don's instruction after dinner, and I am going to be out of pocket for a few days, but let me post this:

When seeking to set the engine to TDC, I centered the little flywheel ball in the window:

The TC is located directly above the line just above the steel ball in the window. I then checked that the cam lobes for the number one cylinder are pointing downward:

and looked at the position of the bolt Don said to replace:

So, having rotated the engine a few times, this all looks fine (how does Don do that?). However, if I look at the position of the timing marks on my harmonic balancer:

Not sure how this is possible, but the flywheel I bought was used. Is it possible I somehow managed to install a flywheel from another engine (an M20, perhaps)? Or is this ok and I'm seeing ghosts?

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

when you get done

You'll have to do a concise write up. I did not remove any of the chains when re-sealing Hamleta but did remove the distributor so my assembly should be much easier. I am starting to get back to work on her this week so I'll do my best to post some shots.

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

Here is what I got

OK, my flywheel has 2 balls (no comments please). One is close to the Z and one is a little after it. When I line up the "Z" ball the front cover mark is off by some degrees. When I line up the other ball the timing cover mark is right on. Not sure if this helps.

 

[sfdon]

Wrong order.. Your crank is 22 degrees from TDC
The mark on your flywheel is the mark you see when setting your timing at 2000rpm
That mark is 7 teeth, 22 degrees Before Top Dead Center
See the pic- TDC is a different mark TlO
IN THIS ORDER ONLY!
Crank
Flywheel
Cam

Set the crank and you will see the correct mark on the flywheel.
Then take a pic of the cam.

You have my ph number

 

[Stevehose]

Rotate the harmonic balancer a little more clockwise until it lines up with the case notch and check the timing ball window again.

 

[sfdon]

Exactly^^^^
Thank you!

 

[Ohmess]

If only her sisters were around, your absence would not be noticed:shock:

Might even be preferable.

Wife pulled the old let's go visit our son trick to drag me away from my car work and once again, I fell for it.

So, I can work on my son's car, but Annabelle will have to wait a few days.

 

[aearch]

keep it siMple

so first set the crank- stick a screwdiver in the plug hole
and feel when its atop youll know by rocking it -
then check the front Mark on the daMper -then go froM
there if need to just rotate the caM to Match
thats what ive done to find stretched chains
or bad tensioners