fender and quarter panel removal info

[autokunst]

As I embark on this long journey, I am trying to gather as much data as I can. The more I am armed with, the better prepared I can be. I found a thread and also a PDF by @m_thompson from July, 2010. This is very helpful for the front fenders. Aside from the resto threads, does anyone recall similar/good outlines with photos of the process of removing the front and rear fenders/quarters? Thank you in advance.

 

[m_thompson]

As I embark on this long journey, I am trying to gather as much data as I can. The more I am armed with, the better prepared I can be. I found a thread and also a PDF by @m_thompson from July, 2010. This is very helpful for the front fenders. Aside from the resto threads, does anyone recall similar/good outlines with photos of the process of removing the front and rear fenders/quarters? Thank you in advance.

Thanks for the kind words. I actually replaced the fenders in the mid 1980s, so I had to use a film camera for the images. I would have taken a lot more pictures and provided a lot more detail if a digital camera was available.

 

[Krzysztof]

How to look for this historical topic? It might be handy in some time...

 

[eriknetherlands]

As I have a full rear nos right quarter and a nos front fenders spares, and a car that is half disassembled, I can be of assistance perhaps, by showing how seams and welds are under that paint.

First question: do you replace with new old stock (full) panels or only patch panels?

If you have patch panels then it is not always needed to take the whole panel off the car. They can be welded in situ. If your wheel wells need repair (or other underlying structures) then removing the whole panel makes sense. If the wheel well is solid then the rear quarter often only needs the lower patch panels

I would drill some alignment holes for cleco's before separating the quarter/fenders from the car. This way you will be at least capable to easily reassemble in the right position.

If you have full new panels, then first thing is to measure out the position. Where are the corners and 'landmarks' of the panel that you want to remove relative to the rest of the car? Make sure you measure the points on bare metal.
Measuring a point, that later shows to have a good dab of filler, means that your measurement was a waste of time.

The rear fender has spotwelds in the doorjamb, on the sill, in the wheel well, and then continuing behind the rear bumper into the floor. The panel is butt welded vertically above and below the rear light cluster, it is leaded over.
Another joint is at the c pillar. It starts in the gutter of the trunk to the window frame. The horizontal joint is about 2 or 3 inches up from the trunk surface, again leaded.

Then take a wire wheel to expose all welds.
Then drill out all spotwelds, and slice the welds under the lead.

The body will be very weak without the fenders or quarters, so best is to have light body (remove engine, interior and glass) or weld a reinforcement frame.

 

[autokunst]

Hi Erik,
This is a great outline. I do not have full panels. I plan to re-use much of the existing panels, but with patch pieces around the wheel arch and sill as one would expect. I think it is an interesting idea to key in the patches to the panels before removing them. I'll have to see how I might do that, as I'll likely have to remove portions of metal where the patches will be going. It is a chicken and egg thing.

I also plan on measuring - a lot. I suspect I'll have dozens of measurements, but will there be one or two that I don't have when the time comes? That is what I am afraid of.

As you know, my chassis is bare metal and supported on the suspension points. So it is as light as it can be. I also plan to reinforce it. I am thinking about extending framework that will suspend the nose and tail panel of the car. That way, everything in between can come off and then go back on between the front and rear. Not sure 'how' I will do that yet, but it is a working idea.

One word in your description is something I'd like to ask more about. How would you "slice the welds" under the lead? For example, I have been zeroing in on the butt joints at the front of the front fenders. It seems to me that the only way to split that seam is to cut it. I plan to use a body saw (small reciprocating saw). The blades are quite thin, but I am still removing roughly a mm or so of material that I'll need to space out in reassembly. For the joints at the A and C pillars, I can't cut all the way through as there are other layers there. This leads to the "slice".?. I was assuming I can use a small grinding wheel and cut down through the top layer to release the outer panels.

Thanks for the input!

 

[eriknetherlands]

Indeed you will have a gap of a mm when you cut the metal. No other option. When welding it back up indeed you have to bridge that.
A saw or angle grinder with a thin blade basically has same resulting gap. A saw needs some free space behind the panel, even if you hold it neat parallel to the panel; an angle grinder can cut with just a 'kiss' to a layer underneath that is in flat contact. A saw has better ability to make curved lines, a grinder is limited to near straight lines.
In the nose of the car there is lot of empty space behind so a saw would work there ( i haven't done it yet) , but at the A and C pillar there is underlying structure that you have to take care about, slicing only the top layer and not the one behind it. I think i would use an angle grinder for that.

 

[eriknetherlands]

I've too sliced the rear quarter for a patch panel. In my car the upper wheel arch was pretty good, but the floor connection was rusted.
To position the patch I used a NOS panel for measurements. I found that this ( see pics) measurement makes most sense; from the crest to the little fold that follows the boot floor.

I've measured it that at 3 different locations in the rear quarter. It allows you to move the patch panel top-down to it's appropriate height.

There are a lot of numbers on the pics, but the ones that helped me in the end the most where the (green pen) 302, 305 and 310 mm.
The black dimensions are taken from the bottom edge of the panel, up to the crest. (498, 491 and 475 mm). Matching to those numbers are:
498 & 194 mm (to bolt hole center);
491 & 181 mm ( to high point of feature line)
475 & 173 mm ( to high point of feature line)

The tape over the rear light opening has two measurements, as this is not easy to measure. 466mm is from bottom end of the panel up to the crest. That is also how the tape measure is clamped into place, it's zero point is around the corner.
455 mm is from the visible corner up to the crest. I found that easier to measure as I could not use the clamps on the car to check the 466 value.

 

[autokunst]

Indeed you will have a gap of a mm when you cut the metal. No other option. When welding it back up indeed you have to bridge that.
A saw or angle grinder with a thin blade basically has same resulting gap. A saw needs some free space behind the panel, even if you hold it neat parallel to the panel; an angle grinder can cut with just a 'kiss' to a layer underneath that is in flat contact. A saw has better ability to make curved lines, a grinder is limited to near straight lines.
In the nose of the car there is lot of empty space behind so a saw would work there ( i haven't done it yet) , but at the A and C pillar there is underlying structure that you have to take care about, slicing only the top layer and not the one behind it. I think i would use an angle grinder for that.

I can't thank you enough for your corroboration. It is very clear to me now. Looking forward to digging in (and also very anxious).

 

[autokunst]

I've too sliced the rear quarter for a patch panel. In my car the upper wheel arch was pretty good, but the floor connection was rusted.
To position the patch I used a NOS panel for measurements. I found that this ( see pics) measurement makes most sense; from the crest to the little fold that follows the boot floor.

I've measured it that at 3 different locations in the rear quarter. It allows you to move the patch panel top-down to it's appropriate height.

There are a lot of numbers on the pics, but the ones that helped me in the end the most where the (green pen) 302, 305 and 310 mm.
The black dimensions are taken from the bottom edge of the panel, up to the crest. (498, 491 and 475 mm). Matching to those numbers are:
498 & 194 mm (to bolt hole center);
491 & 181 mm ( to high point of feature line)
475 & 173 mm ( to high point of feature line)

The tape over the rear light opening has two measurements, as this is not easy to measure. 466mm is from bottom end of the panel up to the crest. That is also how the tape measure is clamped into place, it's zero point is around the corner.
455 mm is from the visible corner up to the crest. I found that easier to measure as I could not use the clamps on the car to check the 466 value.

Wow, wow, wow. Thank you for sharing these images and measurements. I can't wait to compare them to my panels. I need to invest in a metric tape measure.

Again, this is so helpful to me - I really appreciate your sharing your approach.

 

[Cornishman]

Love the metric tape measure comment. The other day I used an Austrian tape measure and discovered it only had metric and not both metric and imperial, it was the first time I had seen that. It never crossed my mind not to have both, but you must have the imperial only version.

I am also most impressed with the technique and approach measuring and marking the panel, this site is just fab for new ideas. Keep them coming.

 

[Sven]

Some photos of a few of the attachment areas. The front has the two top curved angle pieces spot welded to inner and outer fender tops. There are more spot welds in the door jamb. I found these the hardest to get at. The front also has a short section with spot welds under the front bumper (also difficult to get at)

Both the rear and front have similar overlaps onto the A & C pillars and the piece under the windows. Scrape away the lead filler and carefully find the spot welds and some edge welds. The rear fender is probably the hardest. There are bunch of spot welds along the bottom edge, and then along the rear wheel arch and again to the side of the trunk floor panels.