going rate for a cr dogleg transmission

bimmerboy73

bimmerboy73

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Savvy friends,

Was wondering what the going rate for a Cr dogleg is these days. I've been curious about them for quite a while and was considering trying to pick one up if the cost is reasonable. Assuming used (not rebuilt ) but in solid, serviceable condition.

Also, any considerations when purchasing, installing, etc...


Richard
 
bimmerboy73 said:
Savvy friends,

Was wondering what the going rate for a Cr dogleg is these days. I've been curious about them for quite a while and was considering trying to pick one up if the cost is reasonable. Assuming used (not rebuilt ) but in solid, serviceable condition.

Also, any considerations when purchasing, installing, etc...


Richard
Click to expand...

If you mean the ZF made CR box that came on E9's back in the day, they are rare and valuable. I heard they sell for $7k and up. I had one in my previous E9. I liked it, but not for touring where you spend signficant amounts of time on the highway at 80mph.

If you mean the Getrag 265 CR box that came on the early Euro E24's...

There was a post in the last week on 5spd conversions with a link to an E28 forum (I think). The linked article said these E24 CR boxes are not a good choice for normal driving because the rpm/mile are too high leading to noisy highway cruising and poor fuel economy. Conclusion was the CR 5spd isn't worth much because most people don't prefer it over the OD box. I think the 5spd OD boxes can still be found for $600-$1000 so the maybe the CR box is only worth $300-$600.

I'm no expert, but I think on the E24, they were paired up with a 3.07 LSD rear end, giving reasonably low rev's for highway cruising (not a a super tall ratio optimized for fuel economy), but also providing closer intermediate ratios for if you do track days, etc. With the tall rear end, it's really not that different from an OD box with a 0.8 top gear paired with a 3.64 (within 5% difference in overall gearing). I have one and will install it with a 3.07 LSD diff from an early E24.

Because these came on Euro e24's, they're not common in the US, but not as rare as the old ZF CR 5spd. I paid a lot for mine (came with a new driveshaft) because it was said to be freshly and professionally rebuilt by a shop recommended by Ron Perry (E28 guy). I paid way-way-way too much, about $2. Given the relatively low torque of the M30, compared to my other old car with an inline 6 (XKE) I think the CR will be nice for everything from autocross to track-days, to general touring through the VT mountains.

John
 
And ...

It is a meaningless point to make in this modern day of twin turbo BMW's with flat torque curves from 1000 to 6800rpm, but in the olden days with carbs and peaky cams a CR box was great for any sporting type of driving event because it was so much easier for beginners to stay "in the power band." Inexperienced drivers/racers often couldn't always be in the optimal gear you need to be in for a particular corner or situation, the mistake is less significant with a CR box. I grew up in the mountains, and when coupled with high altitudes, a CR box could be really handy on roads with tight switchbacks. The OD box sometimes left you either at red line or in the next gear but no ability to accelerate well out of the hairpin turns.

John
 
Thanks for all of the input. So, to sum up: It's great if mated to the proper diff. Worth somewhere between $1000 and $2500 (this particular one is not a zf).

Is the 3.07 pretty common?

Thanks!
 
If you get a CR you need a 3.07
Inspected, cleaned and sealed for the pair is 3,000.00
If you can find them.
 
bimmerboy73 said:
Thanks for all of the input. So, to sum up: It's great if mated to the proper diff. Worth somewhere between $1000 and $2500 (this particular one is not a zf).

Is the 3.07 pretty common?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

No, the 3.07 isn't common as I think the only side loader 3.07 application was on the early Euro 635CSi, ... and maybe the earliest euro 535i's. For us in 'Murica' that means finding a grey market car that's being parted out. Maybe they were also used on the early 7 series (SFDon would know).

My personal take, which seems to be in the minority is:

(1) CR 5spd + 3.07 is fine for the street, and an occasional HPDE day. But you have to live with the somewhat quirky shift pattern. Always good for a short conversation with new E9 friends too.

(2) CR 5spd + 3.64 or even shorter (3.9 or 4.10) is best for a track toy. Hard to imagine needing more than 130mph unless you've got an S88 under the hood and are running LeMans. For us mortals doing vintage racing and track days, 130-ish at red-line is good because you're getting more acceleration from a shorter rear end.

(3) OD 5spd + 3.45 for the crusin type (not me)


And $3k for the pair in good or rebuilt condition .... maybe I should've bought my setup from SFDon as that seems like a great buy.

John
 
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if you decide to go the CR+3.07 route, start lurking over on the "bigcoupe" forum. Every now and then someone will part out a Euro 635 or be selling a rusty basket case that you can part out for the gearbox and diff. You might be able to sell the M90 and other parts to recoup some cost too.

John
 
bfeng said:
if you decide to go the CR+3.07 route, start lurking over on the "bigcoupe" forum. Every now and then someone will part out a Euro 635 or be selling a rusty basket case that you can part out for the gearbox and diff. You might be able to sell the M90 and other parts to recoup some cost too.

John
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Here you go John. $1,500 as mentioned. Maybe a poster in the area can pick it up if you paypal the funds. Look into shipping via greyhound, it's cheap.

http://frederick.craigslist.org/pts/4931171868.html
 
Buy it, go to the Vintage next week and pick it up!
My Airy is only about 30 min from Winston Salem and on you way home!
 
Stan said:
Buy it, go to the Vintage next week and pick it up!
My Airy is only about 30 min from Winston Salem and on you way home!
Click to expand...

Interesting. Just might do that. the other option i have is $2500 for the transmission, speedo drive and bellhousing, inclusive of shipping from west coast to east coast. transmissions is said to be fully functional, original with approx 130,000 miles on it.
 
Bimmerboy
Don't be cheap and risk headaches later. Tell SFDon what you need and let him set you up.

What you don't want is to spend $2k for an unknown quantity, spend many hours doing the install, only to find out 2/3gear Synchros are weak, or that 3rd gear has a whine. Cause then it's more hours to R&R and you'll end up spending more than if you'd done it the right way first.
.
 
bimmerboy73 said:
Interesting. Just might do that. the other option i have is $2500 for the transmission, speedo drive and bellhousing, inclusive of shipping from west coast to east coast. transmissions is said to be fully functional, original with approx 130,000 miles on it.
Click to expand...

And you still need a taller diff if your going to cruise w the car.
 
That depends entirely on the year of the transmission, and whether it has the manual Speedo drive. I haven't looked into it that far. It's good to know that one has options with the newer transmissions.
 
bfeng said:
Bimmerboy
Don't be cheap and risk headaches later. Tell SFDon what you need and let him set you up.

What you don't want is to spend $2k for an unknown quantity, spend many hours doing the install, only to find out 2/3gear Synchros are weak, or that 3rd gear has a whine. Cause then it's more hours to R&R and you'll end up spending more than if you'd done it the right way first.
.
Click to expand...

Dont worry, no intention of going the cheap route. Just trying to get an understanding of the scope of the project and associated costs so that i can prioritize investment over the next year. I'd initially planned on finishing out the interior but remembered recently hearing a whining sound (almost like metal on metal) from the tranny at highway speed the last few times i drove it. This was a few years ago now so never had an opportunity to diagnose it. seems like it might be a reasonable time to get all of the mechanicals right before i complete this current phase of restoration. And as an e28 owner, i've always been fond of the dogleg.
 
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