H E L P ! I want to take the engine out of the car !

deQuincey

deQuincey

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any tips, or a good thread in this forum, or recommendations for this task ?

my intention is to take the engine out from the car, and have it done in a professional workshop, but i would like to remove it from and back to the car by myself

i can manage to do almost all the minor dissasembly (carbs, coolant hoses,, radiator, ..., but i am worried about removing the engine out

so:

1- what do I need to remove to take the engine out ?

hood
air filter and carbs
pulleys and ventilator
radiator
accelerator conection
battery (probably not necessary)
steering pump
adpmision collectors
exhaust collectors
heating hoses
electrical conections

whatabout brake issues ? is it really necessary to remove the master cylinder or the vacuum box
and the starter motor ?

2- then, when all the pheripherals are out, what are the next steps ?, this is my greater fear,
I lknow that I will have to assure te front and the rear lifting points with an appropriate chain and a crane
but then:

what about the clutch bolts, how many are they?
do I need to do it from below the car ? is it a PIA ?
i do not have an elevator to do it safely and confortably, so I wonder if the access is so bad, or if the force needed is so high

is it better to take it out inlcuding the gear box ?, is it possible ?

i will appreciate you help

roegards
 
You are talking about removing a lot more than needed.

When I removed my engine, I removed/disconnected:
Power steering pump (from engine bracket, just 2 bolts, leaves lines attached)
Hood
Radiator
Air cleaner housing
Transmission (from bellhousing, much easier than removing the bellhousing from the engine while the engine is in the car)
Exhaust downpipes
Firewall heater connections
Wiring connections
AC compressor
Throttle linkage (to pedal only)
Motor mount nuts (where they attach to the front subframe)

I was able to take the engine out without removing the intake system. Just use the eyeholes on the front and back of the engine with an engine hoist and a load leveler. It is very possible to remove the engine with the transmission, but my garage was too short to allow it.

Alternatively, some people drop the front subframe with the engine still attached, then lift the car body off the subframe/engine combo. Some say this is easier than removing the engine.
 
Engine removal

Under this link, http://www.firstfives.org/ , in the faqs section is the basic information you seek- 2.8 to 3.5 conversion. Aside from the fact that you're not changing to a larger motor with fuel injection, the process is much the same.

Yes, remove the battery for safety reasons. Your safety.

Much decisions are based on wether the trans and motor come out together or trans and bellhousing first; then motor. It depends on the area you have in front of the car to manuever, the angle necessary to remove, and being careful with the a/c condensor and firewall insulation.

Best of luck.

p.s. Did something happen? Or did we just get on the slippery slope?
 
hmmm

When I took engines out of my 2002s, (and the 3.0CS will be similar, just with a longer, heavier engine)...

I took out the radiator and its three hoses, and the battery (if I hadn't already moved that to the trunk). I took out the engine and trans together (though I have put the trans on a mounted engine from under the car). Disconnections include electrical, linkage to the gas pedal, gas line. Unbolt the power steering pump from the engine and let it hang; similarly don't remove the pump oil reservoir. The load leveler is nice to have but not required, but you'll have to arrange some way to tip the engine fore and aft.

I removed the hood from the 2002s. It's so much easier with it off, and you can reach in from three sides not just two. I haven't done the 3.0 yet but I wonder if the hood opens enough to take the motor and trans out together. I doubt it, so either remove the hood and have 'em out together, or take the trans off the motor while still in the car.

The 11 o'clock position trans bolt is a sumbitch to remove. I found the tools in the kit worked as well as could be hoped, I think the thin 17mm (19mm?) box is the one to use unless you have several feet of wobble extensions on your ratchet.
 
thanks for all the answers

i will try to summarise the received information

accordingto the space and means available for the operation, i would like to consider the most simple process

so i consider removing only the engine, that means that when all the pheripherals are removed, i would like to take the engine away from the clutch, or from the flywheel, the easiest one of the two

anyone has experienced this method?

do you think it is possible to access the required bolts ?, how many are they ? any specific difficulties ?

regards and thanks


remark: reason for this, is abnormal oil consumption, not solved with the head renewal, that ends with dirty spark plugs that need to be renewed after very little kms, its an old issue, but i am fed up with it, so...
 
Pull the trans. Then the bellhousing by tilting the engine down. Then engine. Once out you can strip the rest.

Did you do a compression test?
 
FYI- I do a lot of engine pulls every year and if I pull it out the top then I take the clutch and flywheel off first. Why? Because I want every inch of clearance possible so there is smallest chance of banging the radiator support or the firewall. Small amount of work for a little important room that will keep me from paying for a re-spray on a clip. BTW - pulling the flywheel keeps the 3 pins from hooking on $500 worth of OEM firewall insulation.
 
61porsche said:
Did you do a compression test?
Click to expand...

i did several compression tests in the recent life of the car:

in April 2010, before redoing the engine head, the compression test gave this results:

cyl 1: 12
cyl 2: 12
cyl 3: 12
cyl 4: 10,4
cyl 5: 11,7
cyl 6: 10,9

and some time after redoing the engine head, in Feb 2011:

cyl 1: 11,7
cyl 2: 11
cyl 3: 12
cyl 4: 10,3
cyl 5: 10,8
cyl 6: 10,9

it is strange indeed that some compression values got worse after doing a work in the engine head

i was not happy with the work they did in my engine head, so i am considering first of all to remove the head only and check it (i am suspicious about the valve stem covers, probably wrong installation ?)

they were new valve stem covers together with new valves, but the fact was that, after a short period of time, the engine went burning oil again, (a lot of burning when retaining the car in a downhill with engine braking, and when driving avobe 3000 rpm´s too )

the head probably is responsible for this, but anyway that difference between 10,3 and 12, makes me think about the piston rings, that had never been renewed, and i think it is time to do so

the situation is that the engine burns an average of 0,5liter oil per 100 km, and that makes the spark plugs so dirty that they are useles after some weeks driving. this is the reason for the idea of undertaking this job

any comments or ideas ? a checking process reccomended ?

help will be appreciated

regards
 
First try to determine piston rings or valves by retesting wet. By that I mean introduce a small amount of oil ( tablespoon or two) before each cylinder test. If the test remains the same; it would likely be a valve. If that's the case, I'd ask the shop to redo the job. If the oil you introduced raises the test , it would likely indicate rings.

Do you have a picture of the plugs numbered?

A better test would be a leakdown- a test that indroduces air pressure when the piston is at tdc, and a second guage reads the reduces pressure. It can further indicate the leakage source- you'll hear it from the carbs, tailpipe, or case( block.)

You compression is off by 20%. What is unusual is that it's number two and four. Two sometimes makes sense on a carb as it get's the most direct shot in the middle. Four doesn't, 5 would. Watch those floats on the carbs for flooding.

Which valve did you have a problem with before and is it one of the bad cylinders? Was there a ridge at the top of the bores?

By redoing the head, the combustion chamber got cleaned, piston tops too and that could cause a small difference as carbon buildup can raise the compression.

Did you notice what size pistons that you have when the head was off? standard, oversize 1, etc.
 
I´ll try to answer your kind comments in your text

61porsche said:
First try to determine piston rings or valves by retesting wet. By that I mean introduce a small amount of oil ( tablespoon or two) before each cylinder test. If the test remains the same; it would likely be a valve. If that's the case, I'd ask the shop to redo the job. If the oil you introduced raises the test , it would likely indicate rings.
this will be very nice, i wish my near garage has time to do it (now is pre-holliday season :evil:), i will try to have it done

Do you have a picture of the plugs numbered? unfortunately not, but my feeling is that they look almost the same, the thread is a bit oily, with black deposits in the electrod

A better test would be a leakdown- a test that indroduces air pressure when the piston is at tdc, and a second guage reads the reduces pressure. It can further indicate the leakage source- you'll hear it from the carbs, tailpipe, or case( block.) i will ask if someone can carry out this test

You compression is off by 20%. a 20% is high or normal ?

What is unusual is that it's number two and four. Two sometimes makes sense on a carb as it get's the most direct shot in the middle. Four doesn't, 5 would. Watch those floats on the carbs for flooding.

Which valve did you have a problem with before and is it one of the bad cylinders? i do not really know exactly but i think that was cyl 4
Was there a ridge at the top of the bores? i do not know, but the new valves were installed using the abrasive-paste method, which i supposed was the normal way...

By redoing the head, the combustion chamber got cleaned, piston tops too and that could cause a small difference as carbon buildup can raise the compression.

Did you notice what size pistons that you have when the head was off? standard, oversize 1, etc.i don´t know either, if we refer to the bad garage tales (the one that did the head job), they told me that they checked the tightness of the piston to cyl pouring solvent in the cyl, when the head was away, and they saw no leaks, also i remember they told me the cylinder walls were not damaged
Click to expand...

thank you so much
 
A little suggestive help

DQ,

I would purchase my own compression testor, do my own tests, and get comfortable with the results. I would not rely on a mechanic, unless I was comfortable and you've said you're not.

1. If all the plugs look wet- you have to determine if it's oil or gas. You're using and abnormal amount and saying that they all look oily. If you're old compression numbers can be used, they would indicate the problem to be in cylinder 2 or four. But with that amount of oil consumption there's something else happening. Wrong valve stem guide clearance, bad wrong seals, choked up/ stuck oil rings on the pistons.

2. Take the valve cover breather hose off the air cleaner and see if there's a lot of oil or smoke coming out of it. Are the carb throats black/ oily? In other words, is there something going on in the head that was redone that's somehow now got more oil or combustion leaks that is blowing oil around and being sucked into the cylinders?

3. Cylinder pressures and difference- past 10% differences can be cause for concern. 20% definate concern. On a new engine the difference should be less than 3%.

4. Never pour solvent in a cylinder, unless you're trying to unstick a frozen piston. It would in no way indicate sealing in a stationary engine. You can turn a head upside down, pour alcohol or fluid in the closed chamber and look at the ports for weeps or leaks.
 
61porsche said:
DQ,

I would purchase my own compression testor, do my own tests, and get comfortable with the results. I would not rely on a mechanic, unless I was comfortable and you've said you're not.

1. If all the plugs look wet- you have to determine if it's oil or gas. You're using and abnormal amount and saying that they all look oily. If you're old compression numbers can be used, they would indicate the problem to be in cylinder 2 or four. But with that amount of oil consumption there's something else happening. Wrong valve stem guide clearance, bad wrong seals, choked up/ stuck oil rings on the pistons.

2. Take the valve cover breather hose off the air cleaner and see if there's a lot of oil or smoke coming out of it. Are the carb throats black/ oily? In other words, is there something going on in the head that was redone that's somehow now got more oil or combustion leaks that is blowing oil around and being sucked into the cylinders?

3. Cylinder pressures and difference- past 10% differences can be cause for concern. 20% definate concern. On a new engine the difference should be less than 3%.

4. Never pour solvent in a cylinder, unless you're trying to unstick a frozen piston. It would in no way indicate sealing in a stationary engine. You can turn a head upside down, pour alcohol or fluid in the closed chamber and look at the ports for weeps or leaks.
Click to expand...

i appreciate your suggestions

definitely i am seing that i will need to do evrything by myself to be confident on the results

i will try to do some of this checkings before removing the engine

thanks
 
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