Hagerty Valuations

Lotuss7

Lotuss7

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So I received a note from Hagerty that I might want to increase the value for my insurance.

When I went into their valuation tools I found the gap between a 2800cs and 3.0cs had dropped to just $20k at all levels.

No longer the under appreciated older sibling!!
 
A 20k$ difference regardless of condition? So if a 3.0Cs rust bucket is worth 20k$ the equivalent 2800cs is free?

BTW, what is the general opinion of appraisers? Are they consistent and accurate?

Does the Hagerty tool explain what formulas they use? A sliding window of comparables? Any inflation or appreciation index applied to old data?
 
Here's Hagerty's valuation website...

Classic Car, Truck and Motorcycle Values | Hagerty Valuation Tool®

What’s your classic cars value? The Hagerty classic car valuation tool® is designed to help you learn how to value your classic car and assess the current state of the classic car market. We also offer classic motorcycle values and classic truck values.
www.hagerty.com

or...

Makes | Hagerty Valuation Tools

What’s your classic cars value? The Hagerty classic car valuation tool® is designed to help you learn how to value your classic car and assess the current state of the classic car market. We also offer classic motorcycle values and classic truck values.
www.hagerty.com



Here are screen shots of their numbers...


Screen Shot 2022-04-27 at 8.09.05 AM.png



Screen Shot 2022-04-27 at 8.10.34 AM.png



Here is one explanation of how Hagerty develops values...

Hagerty Car Values | Hagerty Classic Car Values | Hagerty Vs. J.D. Power

Hagerty car values vs. J.D. Power comparison. Read on to learn more about the differences between the two when it comes to serving the auto industry.
www.nadaguides.com www.nadaguides.com
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
Here's Hagerty's valuation website...

Classic Car, Truck and Motorcycle Values | Hagerty Valuation Tool®

What’s your classic cars value? The Hagerty classic car valuation tool® is designed to help you learn how to value your classic car and assess the current state of the classic car market. We also offer classic motorcycle values and classic truck values.
www.hagerty.com
Click to expand...

Well yes. And I've always found that site useful for obtaining a rough estimate of vintage car values. However, I've found it to be like Zillow is for home values - not always up-to-date in a rapidly rising market.

But here's my real question: I got the sense that Lotuss7 has his coupe insured with Hagerty and they are recommending that he increase his coverage. Is there a relationship between the data on Hagerty's publicly available site (the url in Dick's message) and the database Hagerty uses to run their insurance business? If they are the same, then they are under-insuring certain cars in the current market.
 
Does anyone question these values as being inflated so we all run to up our coverage and therefore our premiums? Sure if I trash my car, I get a huge check but somehow insurance companies always end up on top somehow........they probably have actuary tables for cars!.
 
Haha…yes. $20k at each level.
jmackro said:
Well yes. And I've always found that site useful for obtaining a rough estimate of vintage car values. However, I've found it to be like Zillow is for home values - not always up-to-date in a rapidly rising market.

But here's my real question: I got the sense that Lotuss7 has his coupe insured with Hagerty and they are recommending that he increase his coverage. Is there a relationship between the data on Hagerty's publicly available site (the url in Dick's message) and the database Hagerty uses to run their insurance business? If they are the same, then they are under-insuring certain cars in the current market.
Click to expand...
yes. They reached out to me on a couple of my vehicles. But the coupe was the biggest gap between my insured value and what they are suggesting.

And yes…they do use their internal public valuation when Setting values with customers.
 
This is a good description to establish value. Agree their values are guidelines only. But do reflect the market.


file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/20/00/400FC512-E940-4AE8-B796-5AAD995ABF84/HowToValue.pdf
 
jmackro said:
Well yes. And I've always found that site useful for obtaining a rough estimate of vintage car values. However, I've found it to be like Zillow is for home values - not always up-to-date in a rapidly rising market.

But here's my real question: I got the sense that Lotuss7 has his coupe insured with Hagerty and they are recommending that he increase his coverage. Is there a relationship between the data on Hagerty's publicly available site (the url in Dick's message) and the database Hagerty uses to run their insurance business? If they are the same, then they are under-insuring certain cars in the current market.
Click to expand...

What is the right methodology Jay for valuation in a rapidly rising market? A narrower comparables window?

I think insurers want the fleet of classics they insure to be under-insured. The owner has skin in the game and does the most to avoid losses. Should a car become over insured (because you had agreed value and the market dropped, or poor appraisal) there is a perverse incentive to make the car disappear or a total loss event.

Similarly mortgage company appraisers should have a bias to under estimate value to protect the lender should they end up having to repossess the property. Any thoughts?
 
Arde said:
I think insurers want the fleet of classics they insure to be under-insured. The owner has skin in the game and does the most to avoid losses. Should a car become over insured (because you had agreed value and the market dropped, or poor appraisal) there is a perverse incentive to make the car disappear or a total loss event.

Similarly mortgage company appraisers should have a bias to under estimate value to protect the lender should they end up having to repossess the property. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think that is correct for homes and "normal" cars. Maybe not collector cars.

My guess is there are VERY few claims for collector cars. We don't drive them much (especially if multiple collector cars are owned), we don't drive them ANY 6+ months of the year in many areas, we are VERY careful when we do drive them, we keep them in a locked garage. The higher the insured amount, the more income for the insurance company, the more careful we are with the car, the less we drive it, the fewer the claims. I don't think Hagerty lets us know we need to raise our insured value out of the goodness of their heart. ;)
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
The higher the insured amount, the more income for the insurance company, the more careful we are with the car, the less we drive it, the fewer the claims. I don't think Hagerty lets us know we need to raise our insured value out of the goodness of their heart. ;)
Click to expand...
Bummer, I thought they cared. I will self insure and spoil their plans.
 
Dick Steinkamp said:
I think that is correct for homes and "normal" cars. Maybe not collector cars.

My guess is there are VERY few claims for collector cars. We don't drive them much (especially if multiple collector cars are owned), we don't drive them ANY 6+ months of the year in many areas, we are VERY careful when we do drive them, we keep them in a locked garage. The higher the insured amount, the more income for the insurance company, the more careful we are with the car, the less we drive it, the fewer the claims. I don't think Hagerty lets us know we need to raise our insured value out of the goodness of their heart. ;)
Click to expand...
Hahaha. There is obviously motivation in the outreach. Maybe this is an early State Farm influence. And yes it will be in added premiums. However the add on will be minimal for me.

For someone who had the low beam light circuit fail causing an electrical meltdown which required replacement of a significant part of the front harness. (Thanks Don!!) If the car had caught fire and burnt to the ground?? I’d like the additional money.

And as an aside. Two years ago I was approached by a Hagerty rep who went thorough my coverage with me. Refined specified expected annual mileage which when set below California thresholds saved enough money to cover the increased value I put the vehicles (6) and also in adding stored car. So not entirely out for money!!
 
I'm not saying Hagerty is evil. Far from it. They seem to be a well run company. I just think they are not going to pass up an opportunity for an increase in profit. That's a good thing for them, and the policy holder gets additional value for their increased premium. It's also an easy sell for the insurance company. Who doesn't want to be told their collector car is worth more money than they thought.
 
I have recently increased the value of my Coupe with Hagerty, because I have just had some very significant upgrades done to it, and when I realized that the value I did have attached to my car, was of course in Canadian dollars, this would not be able to purchase a replacement Coupe on say BAT, where it is all USD, should I want to replace what I have. I was underinsured. They claim they will get back to you within 48 hours. Today, 5 business days later, they called and said they have no problem agreeing to my increased value, but they want a "driver's abstract" from our Provincial insurance corporation. The way I see it they are acting totally like an insurance company, they will insure your car for an agreed value, but if your record shows you drive and crash like a teenager with his first set of wheels, then I am sure the premium will jump significantly.
 
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