hate to say outloud....

[dave v. in nc]

Some things you hate to talk about...but I saw a very nicely restored 2002 for sale over on the bmw2002faq that had had an engine fire. Very sad and scary thought; probably a 10K car for sale for $800. If it was closer, I'd probably buy it....I digress, sorry. So...

Do any of you (carbed) guys carry an extinguisher? (actually used to carry a cheap 6-pack of beer in my old 2002 trunk many years ago for that purpose) I'm shopping so would appreciate recommendations for size, type, brand, resource, and of course where to store. Floor in front of pass seat? I dont plan to do track time, and probably dont need one installed in the engine bay, but would consider that. Thoughts? Expect to pay? Thanks, Dave V. carb'd in NC

 

[Adam]

i have a halon fire extinguisher that i purchased on eBay. NOT cheap. i did not want to go with one of the liquid solutions or baking soda type fire retardent because of all the mess these things make.

as far as mounting goes, the obvious place is right on the A-pillar. but there's no way any of us would mar the beautiful coupe interior with such a fast&furious decorating touch.

i think choice #2 is to mount horizontally on the rear seat kick panel. passenger side is probably best so you can reach over in an emergency & quickly grab your fire extinguisher. it's not perfect, but it's way more unobtrusive than mounting on the A-pillar. of course, if your rear speakers are mounted on the kick panel, then this isn't a good option for you. also, it probably makes it tough for anyone to sit in the passenger side rear seat. this was the dealbreaker for me for this mounting location.

me: i have my extinguisher in the trunk. i know, i know; this is WAY less than ideal. but i hope it's something i never ever have to use anyhow.

maybe others have more creative solutions...

 

[jamesr]

Definately a good idea dave. I have one in the back of mine just incase and bought it after seeing something similar on a classic 911 forum. The bloke who's car it was said how fast it went up and all he could do was stand by the side of the road an watch.

Apologises for the complete lack of info though, as i've no idea what type it is.

 

[84E24]

How long does it take to pull the extinguisher
from inside the car let alone from the trunk.
In my mind time equals damage. I have been
looking for a system like the one Duke put in his
M5
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/269576/4

Maybe not with AFFF but with Halon. I agree that you should
also carry an additional unit.

Anyone know of such a system?

 

[Adam]

had a halon system in the engine compartment of my father's old boat. the advantage to the halon based systems is that they're *MUCH* easier to install than the foam ones; no tubing to snake in & out of fenders & suchlike. just mount strategically & you're good to go. moreover, once the fire is out, the halon doesn't leave a gooey mess like other fire retardants; it simply gets released into the atmosphere.

the disadvantage to the halon based "systems" is they're not really "systems" at all. instead, they're just halon fire extinguishers with a heat sensitive nozzle (like the ones on commercial & residential interior firefighting sprinkler systems) replacing the traditional trigger. the halon goes off when the ambient temperature is hot enough to burst the nozzle, thereby releasing the halon gas to smother the fire.

the problem with this is that sometimes the heat sensitive nozzles go off without proper provocation. whether this is a function of being unable to manufacture those nozzles in such a way that they can accurately withstand the heat fluctuations of an engine compartment, or whether they simply degrade over time i cannot say.

what happened on our boat was that sometimes exhaust would leak from the manifolds & heat up the cabin. the engine temp gauges never went into the red, but the halon extinguishers fired off with a WHOOSH nonetheless. the halon gas smothered the engine, thereby shutting it down.

now, on the open ocean, this wasn't a problem. the boat coasted to a stop, not putting anyone in danger.

imagine, though, being on a highway & having your halon system fire off (responding to a fire real or imagined). your engine, deprived of oxygen, cuts out. and there's a legion of leadfoots preventing you from getting over from the left lane to the shoulder...

scary stuff!

another problem with halon is that it's going the way of the dodo. environmentalists are concerned that it eats away at our ozone layer. so it's a strictly regulated gas, making it hard (read: expen$ive) to obtain & maintain.

as an aside, i think what gets ignored in the environmental debate is that an engine that catches fire just has to be way more destructive to the environment than an extinguisher's full of halon would be. but then, i don't make the rules around here...


-Adam

 

[Philip Slate]

If you just want a hand held fire extinguisher almost any fire extinguisher store should have a reasonable selection. If you're going to go with Halon, a good idea, get a 5Lb. bottle. The physical size is a bit large for a street driven car but anything smaller, IMHO, would not be adequate (ok, a 2.5Lb maybe). Be sure to use a metal mount with a metal strap. Some marine applications have metal mount with a rubber strap...not a good idea in a car.

For some fire systems check the link. (no affiliation, yada, yada)
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advcat.asp?CategoryID=FIRESYSTEMS

 

[jhjacobs]

If you run an electric fuel pump be extremely careful with a hand operated extinguisher! An emergency fuel cut off switch would probably be a smart addition. For an extinguisher, a built in system would be the best bet is fire is a real worry. Then again, an ounce of prevention is the best solution - keeping fuel lines, filters, and spark plug wires in top condition will prevent most engine bay fires.

While I have been known to carry an extinguisher in my car I am probably alive today because I didn't have one once. I was driving a Fiat 650 (high school days) and I noticed flames coming from the back of the car (where the engine and fuel tank were). I stopped, put on the emergency brake, and got my girl friend out just before the car burst into massive flames. Had I tried to put out the fire I surely would have been seriously injured if not killed. Needless to say the car didn't make it. :shock: So, opening the hood when there are flames could be a serious mistake. No car, not even an E9, is worth getting seriously hurt.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Malc]

I know quite a bit about fire extinguishers in cars, I go stage rallying and each vehicle must have a "plumbed" in system and a hand held as per the UK MSA regulations

The plumbed in system can be operated from within the car or outside and can be either electrical fire or mechanical, note the electric side is operated by it's own battery. The hand held one, well it's pretty obvious!

Halon is actually banned in motorsport now and except for certain very specific applications is unobtainable in the UK. It is not possible to get systems checked or serviced any more as they go out of date.
All the rally systems are AFFF these days.

I actually have 2 Halon "plumb in " systems from Rally cars in my shed, way out of date but the indicator shows they are still "good"

Plumbed in is probably the way to go, but it's a lot of work so a decent hand held is the next best thing. Unfortunately most car fires get hold very quickly and unless tackled withing the first 45 seconds or so will do extensive damage or be unstoppable. Fire damaged care are very difficult to repair as the heat distorts / weakens the metal.

Fuel cut off or even better an electrical circuit "kill" master switch is an additional good safety device, handy theft deterrent too

Biggest causes of fires in cars is not petrol but brake fluid leaks onto hot parts.
Malc

 

[John H.]

Fire extinguishers

I saw the same post and it was a sad little car! Having owned about 12 '02's and now only having two and one coupe, my two cents is that I always have an foam extinguisher in the back seat on the floor of each of my cars. Only had one fire (an'02 back in '89), but put the fire out super quickly. I respect not risking yourself or loved ones for a car, but if it looks manageable, might as well try to put it out. Flames licking out of the tire wells, well.....not me. But just smoke and high temps, I'll go after it. Just my '02 cents.

 

[m_thompson]

I have a Halon 3011 extinguisher in the trunk.

A long time ago I passed a Corvette in a rest area that was just starting to burn. I stopped, pulled out a really giant CO2 extinguisher, and ran to the burning car. The owner jumped in front of me and said "No, No, Let it burn!".

 

[jmackro]

m_thompson had written: "A long time ago I passed a Corvette in a rest area that was just starting to burn. I stopped, pulled out a really giant CO2 extinguisher, and ran to the burning car. The owner jumped in front of me and said "No, No, Let it burn!"."

m_: You sure it was the owner, and not Carrol Shelby?

 

[dave v. in nc]

thanks

Appreciate all of the input. Time to go shopping. Any other ideas? Much thanks, Dave V. in NC

 

[Honolulu]

Late but... fire stories

I'll chime in anyway. Car fires do get going REALLY fast. I drove up to a convertible towing a trailer with two horses. Came over a rise about a half mile away on the freeway, and the convert had apparently just stopped. By the time I was even with it, and not even thinking of stopping, most of the interior was well ablaze. Horses getting nervous. Lesson: you'd have to be real quick to do anything effective. Possible cause: a lit cigarette butt may have landed in the back seat.

Second time, rebuilt the motor on a '71 VW van for a friend. Six months later his sister was moving house and, again driving down the freeway, smelled smoke. She pulled over on the viaduct (nearly no shoulders whatsoever) and got out in time to see the whole back of the van go off. We had neglected to put back the cover between the engine compartment and gas tank, but what I believe started the mess was that we didn't replace the one pressurized fuel line between the pump and carb. Vibration caused a hose failure, gas all over a hot and running motor.... For lack of about a foot of hose, the van was toasted. Melted the engine block. But he got much more insurance money than it was worth or cost...

Third time, pal in a supercharged 454 Chevy pickup stops for a chat. Lter walks back across our quiet street saying "let's see if she still loves me". Flipped the switch for the pump, cranked the engine "WHUMPF" and flames coming up from under the hood. Had to do something, right? Yelled to stop the motor, popped the hood (thinking that either I'd put it out or get fried crispy) and beat on what turned out to be a small fire at the distributor. Cause: recently rebuilt motor had been installed with fuel hose rubbing against edge of firewall, frayed, burst, caught fire. Moral: check the fuel hose routing, eh?

Never had a fire in any of my cars, Allah be praised.

 

[coupe74]

engine fires

I spilled a little oil on an engine once while sitting right at the gas pump, and it caught fire. I pulled my fire extinguisher out of the trunk and had the fire out in seconds, thank goodness. I've carried a 5# fire extinguisher in every vehicle ever since and have put out 3 fires in other peoples' cars and motorcycles. None of them complained about the mess. Smaller fire extinguishers fit real well in the side wells of e9s.

 

[Mario L.]

I am NOT a fan of halon for cars . .

Yes they are clean . . and sometimes they work, here's an example where they don't.

an Antifreeze / coolant leak on to a hot exhaust . . in this case at the race track . . .heat of exhaust system, cast manifold, was hot enough to boil off water and ignite the antifreeze.
The cooling system is under pressure . . we used 4 halon extinguishers to keep the "flames at bay" but until we put a powder extingusheer on the fire there was nothing to absorb the heat and stop the reignition of the coolant! I wouldn't have believed this if I didn't fight this fire myself, and see it with my own eyes.

IMO, I'd rather have a mess to clean up than not have anything at all!

In all the race cars we build I now install AFFF systems, 5.0 liters . . . water based and easy to clean up, easy to recharge!