How important is originality?

JFENG

JFENG

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In my quest to find an unusual, super clean coupe I've come across everything from an 70k mile 100% correct survivor to E9's with M5 engines and custom styled interiors.

How much would it hurt the value of an E9 to have, for example,

A 3.3l or 3.5l block + 5spd from a 5 series?
Injection from an newer 5 series (E28)
Brakes from a newer 6 or 6 series?
Interiors from 6 and 8 series?

I'm asking because I actually liked some of the upgraded cars I've seen/driven. But with all my other old cars originality generally trumps practical upgrades. It's the rare modern upgrade that isn't considered a detraction from the quality of those cars.

John
 
bfeng said:
In my quest to find an unusual, super clean coupe I've come across everything from an 70k mile 100% correct survivor to E9's with M5 engines and custom styled interiors.

How much would it hurt the value of an E9 to have, for example,

A 3.3l or 3.5l block + 5spd from a 5 series?
Injection from an newer 5 series (E28)
Brakes from a newer 6 or 6 series?
Interiors from 6 and 8 series?

I'm asking because I actually liked some of the upgraded cars I've seen/driven. But with all my other old cars originality generally trumps practical upgrades. It's the rare modern upgrade that isn't considered a detraction from the quality of those cars.

John
Click to expand...
if you want to resell the car to the max. you'll keep her pristine and original.
down to every sticker.

if you want to have fun with the car and want to keep her.
then do what ever you want...
btw...interior of an 8 series in an e9? why would you want to do that? the front seats weigh 160lbs alone... ask me how i know :)
 
Form Follows Function

I think in some ways, we all can appreciate a clean car; be it a survivor, restored, or modified. (Or for many of us, aspiring in one category or another.)

One need only look to BMW and the recent E9 restoration that was completed and modified from standard to auto to understand that we enjoy a great deal of latitude perhaps not available in other marques.

A recent story goes that BMW ships cars to events, some private. On one such occasion a well known car and owner was so invited at thier expense. But as the car was unveiled for showing,... low and behold there sat a brand spanking new M motor in the skin of an expensive nut and bolt restoration. BMW was privately displeased.

The moral- tasteful upgrades ( those that stand the test of time) to suit a particular car or owner are more than accepted; they're expected. As when the cars were new and even more so now.

As to value and modifications- most buyers would pay some premium.

But as I look at E9 owners compared to other groups, I must say it certainly appears that we genuinely enjoy driving the cars; if even to a car show or the gas station.

Just my personal opinion.
 
Very well stated 61porsche....

When I am done with one of my cars, I like to think the engine bay looks like it just came from the factory. It may be upgraded but the upgrades are subtle for negatives and forthright if positives.
 

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restoration

As an owner of a completely restored originial coupe, my intention was to maintain factory specifications. There are those who wish to customize their cars and that's fine, however when prices are thrown about it's always based on the originial specifications, isn't it?
 
Thanks for the advice, struggling with decision

Thanks for the advice guys.
I'm still struggling between a low mileage, unmolested, all original CS that's clean and rust free but needs a repaint (no SR) and some re-chroming or resto-mod CS with 5spd, big block six with later BMW injection, vented discs, clearly built to be a fast and furious street machine (seems to be completely rust free as well).

John
 
my 2 cents

for me the answer comes down to how you are going to use the car - ie buying as an 'investment' (such a bad idea) with an eye toward resale, or to drive and enjoy.

as a new owner of a modified cs (3.5l, motronic, 5 spd, carl nelson suspension), i gotta say i love driving the car - the design aesthetics we all love, plus the modern upgrades that make the car fun and reliable - for me this is the perfect combo.
 
Chiming in--

BLUMAX retains exterior appearance original except for 16" staggered Alpinas--all else as when delivered--the interior changed with Nardi Steering wheel and a custom shifter knob--all else original down to carpet and all other interior surfaces.

Mechanically it's tastefully modified or enhanced if you prefer for driving pleasure--includes cooling system, touring suspension, beefier sway bars, vented disc all round with s/s lines, a 3.5L fitted with cam and webers, upgraded A/C, 5 speed OD with short shifter, LSD--all BMW parts.

I will suggest that a cars provenance may become as important to its value as pure originality--purist originality seems more of a Porsche and Mercedes thing--our cars are driven to events and in between whereas the aforementioned are often trailered and pampered so as to avoid developing any patina.

I can assure you that patina is unavoidable on a 416,300 mile Coupe--but applying it has been a load of fun--and I'm truly unconcerned with its mods and patina detracting from value--and several collectors have been unconcerned as well with those two features of the BLUMAX being a change from original. I frankly doubt that pure originality of BLUMAX--if that were the case--would trump provenance and patina along with tasteful mods for driving pleasure.
JMO
 
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bfeng said:
Thanks for the advice guys.
I'm still struggling between a low mileage, unmolested, all original CS that's clean and rust free but needs a repaint (no SR) and some re-chroming or resto-mod CS with 5spd, big block six with later BMW injection, vented discs, clearly built to be a fast and furious street machine (seems to be completely rust free as well).

John
Click to expand...

A clear case where one must apply Yogi Berra's wisdom:
" When you come to a fork in the road....Take it "
 
it's your car

Agreeing with others above, the big question is what are you going to do with it?

If you want to drive it a lot, you'll very much appreciate modern/performance updates. If you are adding to or starting a 'collection', then an original survivor maybe preferred.

As the owner of a heavily 'manipulated' coupe, I never was concerned about resale value, just completing the 'vision'. Based on the car community's (all marques) response to the project, I've gotten nothing but compliments and comments saying they're glad to see something a little different.

Do/acquire what is going to but the biggest smile on your face everytime you see it and enjoy as much as possible. Works for me.

;-)

-shanon
 
blumax said:
I frankly doubt that pure originality of BLUMAX--if that were the case--would trump provenance and patina along with tasteful mods for driving pleasure.
JMO
Click to expand...

Maybe that's a strength that is particular to the classic-BMW community ... that intelligent modifications aimed at driving pleasure are appreciated. I know this is generally not the case in the Jaguar club, with perhaps the exception of replacing Moss boxes with 5spds.

Anyway, I think it's good that you guys don't always put these cars in plastic bags ase perfectly preserved 100pt garage ornaments.

John
 
There are ways of achieving both goals at the same time. Why not research some of the mods that were done back in the day by the likes of Alpina, Schnitzer etc? Take a standard cs, add a getrag dog-leg box, 300deg Camshaft, triple side-drafts, Bistein suspension, better wheels, larger barakes etc.

The result may not be as spectacular as an M5 engined car, but is will still be awesome to drive. If done properly (i.e. as a clone) it will add to the value of the car in anyones book. I have done this with my BMW 2002tii and turned it into an Alpina A4 clone. All the parts are period and correct, and the car looks identical to an original that has been on the market for some time. It will go as well as the original, look identical and although it won't be as valuable, it will be worth a hell of a lot more than a standard or modded tii.

There is also fun to be had researching the originals, deciding which car you are going to clone and then searching for the parts.
 
Original or modified?

Well of course no one can top the provenance of Blumax.

I think with a CSL original specs may be more important than with a CS or CSi.

I think certain mods are generally acceptable (mentioned by others) 5 sp, 3.5 M30 engine, webers, A/C, 16 inch Alpinas while other mods (tarted up interior, S38 engine) might be less so at resale time, but to each his own - but, yes, drive it.

I do not think the "acceptable" mods will hurt resale price, but originality (and condition of course) might bring top dollar. But anyone who buys cars for investments (not counting Bugattis and Ferraris and the like) is going to be disappointed most of the time.

I have a general rule of thumb - if the cars I buy depreciate $1000 per year or less (compare this to any new car) and do not require a lot for maintenance - then the cost of ownership is "acceptable". This arbitrary formula has worked (i.e. no anguish on my part) for my 87 e24, my 88 M6, and my (tastefully modified) e9 and I enjoy driving each of them.
 
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