How prevalent are front electric windows?

[nashvillecat]

Perhaps this has been previously answered in some form or another, but I have wondered whether more E-9's have manual front windows or electric powered windows. A few months ago I noticed a couple of coupes parked in a Shreveport Louisiana Casino parking lot. One car had European plates that may or may not have been authentic. The other car had no plates, nor any exterior badges. My curiosity caused me to look at the interiors of both cars. Both seemed equipped with air conditioning yet both had manual front windows. I guess my point is that I have never understood the logic is the extravagance of air conditioning yet the apparent frugality of manual front window lifts. The security guard did not permit me to explore the cars (even from the outside) in detail, so I have no idea what models they were.

While I am at it, let me ask another nit picking questions.

Aside from the badging and possibly the speedometer markings (kph vs. mph) is there anything else that identifies a CS vs a CSi? from the outside (with the hood/bonnet closed)?

Another question involves air conditioning. Most of you are aware that other models, notably the 02 had air conditioning as a dealer installed option (Clardy,FrigidKing, Behr and Mark IV). It was never clear to me who installed the air conditioning units in the E9s and E3's although I have suspected the factory approved of one style given the standard air conditioning consoles found in both models. My suspicion seems further bolstered by the factory manual's chapter on the subject. So, was there factory installed air conditioning systems or merely factory approved add on's?

Thanks in advance.

 

[velocewest]

For US spec cars, most 2800Cs's have manual front windows and electric rears. Most US 3.0 CS's have all four electric. Most US coupes have A/C, many European spec cars did not.

The most obvious thing that identifies a CSi is the CSi badge on the boot lid. Speedo markings won't do it because other than in the US and the UK, all e9's have KPH speedos regardless of power train. I can't think of any other exterior indication that a car is carbureted or injected.

As to A/C origin, I dunno. I thought it was factory, not dealer installed, but I have no proof.

 

[Malc]

Tony is right re Csi vs Cs there is no exteria difference except the badge on the boot (trunk) lid.
As far as I can work out the A/C was a factory approved system. However unless it was specially ordered it was not fitted at the factory.
I think the fitting of A/C was done by the main importer or the local area dealer as a pre delivery option when the customer ordered the car they wanted.
Malc

 

[blumax]

Power windows & A/C

Power windows--ALL stock E-9's (except some CSL's came factory equipped with rear electric windows)--German logic--as it is impossible for the driver to reach a manual control on an E-9 to open or close them. It follows that electric front windows remained an option throughout the production of E-9's whether domestic (US) or the rest of the global distribution. Of course many of todays younger owner newbies do not seem to realize that standard issue of all round electric windows is of fairly recent factory practice in the global auto industry as are many other conveniences that did not appear even in luxury cars a few years back--but are expected as standard equipment nowadays--consider that MANY pounds of weight gain for even smaller production automobiles is directly due to inclusion of all the so called "necessary" features that virtually every vehicle now produced has included as standard equipment--due to buyer demand and factory driven marketing of "convenience"--A/C, PS, A/T, air bags, three point seat belts, electric windows, door locks, computers, multi-speaker stereo systems--the list goes on--once upon a time you could get a basic car without all the "stuff" and enjoy the "at oneness" of the driving experience--no more!!

A/C--almost the same can be said of this feature that virtually every prospective Coupe owner now demands--I know for sure in this regard as there is one of the nicest original 1973 3.0CS"s I had located and previously placed here locally about 4 years ago--an exceptional example of an E-9 in every respect--except it's sans A/C--and it has not sold for that simple reason--so if there is someone on this board who wants a low mileage, pampered E-9, completely dry bodied, great runner in Atlantik Blau with black interior (the same combo as the BLUMAX) that shows and drives great--it's here and available--it is admired wherever driven.

My question is--are we getting so conditioned to Big Brothers push at legislating saving us when in an "accident"--and literally demanding so much less energy to expend when owning and operating our toys that we have all bought in to that littany? Why not greater or similar focus on becoming the best driver we can muster up by learning and practicing accident avoidance while enjoying the driving experience.

 

[RogerB]

Re: Power windows & A/C

..........

"A/C--almost the same can be said of this feature that virtually every prospective Coupe owner now demands--I know for sure in this regard as there is one of the nicest original 1973 3.0CS"s I had located and previously placed here locally about 4 years ago--an exceptional example of an E-9 in every respect--except it's sans A/C--and it has not sold for that simple reason--so if there is someone on this board who wants a low mileage, pampered E-9, completely dry bodied, great runner in Atlantik Blau with black interior (the same combo as the BLUMAX) that shows and drives great--it's here and available--it is admired wherever driven."

Solution:

A few years ago I exchanged a complete non-AC system from my Euro E9 for a complete AC system from a Canadian car that had no need for AC and therefore never used it. I had planned to use it on my non-AC CSi, but sold it before installing the system. It is still stored in the shipping container. It consists of everything from the aux fan, condenser, hoses, wiring, drier, evaporator, complete AC console with uncut radio faceplate and AC switches, and compressor mounting brackets. The compressor is not included because I declined having the York compressor shipped from Canada since I intended to use a more efficient Sanden compressor. The "boat anchor" Yorks are available cheap if you just gotta have it. So, if factory AC is keeping you from buying a car like this, I can provide you with the "right stuff". Email me at [email protected] if interested. The price? $1K

As far as the manual windows: I have owned eight E9s before my CSL, and every one had all electric windows. The CSL has manual fronts and fixed rears. Never had a rear window operating mechanism of any kind.


Roger Beckham
Golf 72 CSL 2275030

 

[Dave L]

Interesting AC comments..

I actually de-installed the AC system and converted to the non-ac center console. I'm not sure why anyone would put such a value on having the AC option as a main criteria for purchase. Expecially when the car is not a daily driver, it's kind of a worthless option. I'd rather put down the windows and listen to the engine. Personally, I think it is rarely hot enough to warrant use of the AC system, at least here in So Cal.

Dave L

 

[kealaiki]

Front electric windows

My Euro '75 E9 has power windows in the rear only, but unusually, it also was equipped with Behr AC that seems to have been factory installed.

 

[CSL 1973]

Among other E9s, I have a euro CSi (sold new in Sweden 06/1975) with full factory options (i.e. leather seats, 2x power mirrors, 4x power windows, power sunroof, stereo with original loudspeakers etc.

I have checked with a Swedish BMW dealer and was told that it was very difficult to order a new E9 with both sunroof and A/C. It was either sunroof or A/C but not both. Nowadays, of course many E9 owners may have mounted after-market A/C systems to sunroof cars.

I found the above mentioned E9 priciple from the BMW (if it's true) a little bit contradictory as I also have a 3,3 Li (E3), sold new in Sweden 1976, with both factory A/C and power sunroof.

Personally, I think that if any E9-buyer really insisted to have both A/C and sunroof, they could have it from the factory.

It is true that most 2800 CS came with factory A/C and a fact that all E9s have rear power windows (except CSLs, which have fixed rear windows).