How to think about modifications for pricing

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hlblanton

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First, I'm new here, so thank you all in advance. I have been tracking some threads and think this community will be really helpful.

I'm looking at buying my first E9 since the 1980s. Oddly, prices have changed <G>

The car I am looking at most closely right now is about as good a restoration as you could want. The work was done by a shop I know and respect, and they got the car rust-free.

The goal of the build was to produce a near-perfect driving car, not a Concours example. Everything was done to a very high standard, but there are 4 major modifications from stock.

1: The motor was swapped out for an E34 taken from a ~25k mile M5. The donor had ~25k. Importantly, the original, numbers matching motor is included with the sale.
2: The brakes have been swapped out for a much better, stronger set sourced from a 7 series.
3: The gearbox has been upgraded to a good-ratio Getrag 5 speed.
4: The car came with AC, but it has been upgraded to a modern rotary compressor and associated pieces.
5: Other misc. improvements such as HID lights.

I've no doubt that this is a great car I'm looking at. And it is specced just as I'd like a car (including coincidentally its original color - 042 Baikal Blue Metalic) But it isn't cheap. As I suggested, just a few bucks more than mine was worth in 1984. Before I cut the check i want a gut check to make sure I'm not about to pay filet prices for ground meat when it comes to market value for this kind of build. I'm not looking for the best theoretical price - just to be doing a deal that is fair all the way around.

My sense is that the E9 market has come to accept well-done swaps. I know for sure that that car I'm looking at is easily worth the asking price for a build of this quality done to original specs. So I guess my question here is how much would one change the sale price for a car with these mods? My assumption is that having the original power plant is good b/c the car could be taken back closer to stock. I'm just looking for some confirmation before I pull the trigger.

Again, thanks in advance for all the help. These model specific forums are just SO helpful. I'm active in 2 Porsche and 2 Mercedes groups and they have been great experiences. I'm also looking forward to when I can provide some value myself.

HLB
 
my take on the e9 market is that CSL's demand originality for top price. currently modified coupes are doing well right now ... my guess is that sooner or later original cars might be worth more. all of that is only important for investment purposes. to me, the real enjoyment of a coupe is driving one of the most beautiful cars ever built. if you want it to drive in a more modern fashion, some mods are necessary. well + tastefully modded coupes done correctly should always be worth the money spent. currently in many car marques, the correctly modded car has been worth more. i looked recently at the Pantera market for a friend ... the cars that sold for significantly more were all modded vehicles. of your 5 items - s38 engine is excellent value, especially with original engine. bigger brakes - hardly noticeable (visibly). 5 speed Getrag - many of us have that upgrade. rotary compressor / better condensor - many of us have that upgrade. HID headlights ... most people haven't gone that route ... most use h1 or h4 halogen as they match what coupes came with in europe.

as with any coupe, the more rust free is the best starting point. if you just follow the BaT sales, well put together / restored coupes have all sold between 100k and 175k. most are between 100k / 125k. we are aware of some coupes that have sold in the 200k range, but those are very special cars. CSL can range from 250k to 350k for excellent CSL and between 400k to 550k for some of the Bat series CSL. these are big ranges ... but its the quality / condition that sets the high range apart. knowing / understanding what makes it into the high range ... if you don't know, there are some great people in California that can help you.
 
From my limited experience on this forum during the past year, I believe there are two basic factions. Those who have beautiful original cars and those who have modified vehicles. The right modifications on an imperfect e9 in my opinion make it a better car and worth more. The car sounds great, I’d make sure that you enjoy driving it more than anything. If it puts a smile on your face then the rest pretty much doesn’t matter ( that smile can come from originality or upgrades)

I’d really encourage you to take a deeper look at the condition of the s38. these engines are Considerably more expensive than any m30. They also have considerably more power and look insanely beautiful in an e9 when done properly. $0.02
 
I've a 72 CSA- now running a 5spd and a 72 CSL. My gut says if you have a rust free(ish) car and the original motor, even out of the car you are off to a good start. If factory colour and some paperwork you are off to a really good start.
Conversion from auto to 5spd usually increases price. That said, if you took an OEM CSL 4spd and went to 5spd you may hurt the value. I wouldn't worry about the brakes but if possible get the OEM parts to come with the car. The key to long term value (assuming you care) I think can be broken down via the following:
1.Condition;
2.Originality;
3.Reversibility of any non OEM changes and are original parts with the car.
4.Pedigree/paperwork

Other factors are carb v injected, colour, etc.
 
Without pictures and if it is as you describe you are easily above 100k. Baikal is one of the most desirable colors, proper upgrades to the drivetrain seems to add value. Jump in!
 
To build the Coupe you describe it would be in the $106-130K price range. Go to Bring a Trailer & search E9 sales.
 
I will echo what @Thomas76 had to say. Sounds like a beautiful car with some very common -- and smart -- modifications. If the builder hit the mark to create, as you wrote, "a near-perfect driving car, not a Concours example," then this one is a winner. The advice on value / pricing from earlier commenters seems spot on for the current market. Hope you get it and enjoy it!
 
My thought is that modifications are for cars that are driven, rather than collected...
Alot like what you do/have done to a house that's for sale; T & P (taste and preference) are very important. There's things that "anyone" should/might want, and few e9 customers would object to...like a 5 speed vs. a 4 speed, 3.5 vs.3.0...In a house, central air/heat vs. baseboard heaters.
Then there are the very personal things like curly maple wood or carbon fiber vs. the original walnut. Sparco racing, or sport seats vs. the original "comfort" seats. Hartge or other aftermarket wheels vs. the original alloys. For a house this is like a swimming pool, or modern landscape art, or an asphalt drive; things that may be objectionable to some folks, that are not "value-adds", but negatives, or turnoffs. Color on our coupes, again is alot like houses. The usual expectation is that a coupe will be at least a BMW color, or a close relative...otherwise you venture from "slightly modded" or "resto mod" into the realm of "hot rod". Great for some, not for others. Houses are seldom celebrated in purple, or black and silver; i.e. there are reasonable expectations...but one person's blasphemy is another's idea of fun.
 
dave v. in nc said:
My thought is that modifications are for cars that are driven, rather than collected...
Alot like what you do/have done to a house that's for sale; T & P (taste and preference) are very important. There's things that "anyone" should/might want, and few e9 customers would object to...like a 5 speed vs. a 4 speed, 3.5 vs.3.0...In a house, central air/heat vs. baseboard heaters.
Then there are the very personal things like curly maple wood or carbon fiber vs. the original walnut. Sparco racing, or sport seats vs. the original "comfort" seats. Hartge or other aftermarket wheels vs. the original alloys. For a house this is like a swimming pool, or modern landscape art, or an asphalt drive; things that may be objectionable to some folks, that are not "value-adds", but negatives, or turnoffs. Color on our coupes, again is alot like houses. The usual expectation is that a coupe will be at least a BMW color, or a close relative...otherwise you venture from "slightly modded" or "resto mod" into the realm of "hot rod". Great for some, not for others. Houses are seldom celebrated in purple, or black and silver; i.e. there are reasonable expectations...but one person's blasphemy is another's idea of fun.
Click to expand...
That is how I approached the work I am having done on my E9 (at SFDon's).
I was going to replace the 2.8L M30 & 4-speed with a later (E32/E34 style) 3.5L M30 and 5-speed - as that would be more fun to drive but still be in the BMW 'family' and as my car is not going into a museum or such, the $$'s put in would come out the other end (should I ever wish to sell the car).
I then took it to the next level and had an M90 (CSi look) installed. I figure that my logic is the same - just with a higher $$ premium. Under the hood, the car looks OE E9 CSi style with the C shaped intakes and all).

The other things done are very subtle. Nothing I have done will make the car stand out as odd or too unique.
I have the later E9 brakes F & R, new wood from Bela, AC restored and working, staggered Alpina (clone) 16" wheels, new steering wheel (Alpina from W&N) and just back to what a decent condition car would be. Will be fun to get it back in my garage (hopefully soon). I figure the $$ I am putting into it would come out the other end should I ever decide to sell... Not in the plans on my part - but nice to know that I can (I think) get out of it what I have into it (as I bought it waaaaay cheap many moons ago - 95% of what I have in it is the current work at Don's)
 
Everything on paper ads up to a $150K to $200K car. Unfortunately a lot can fall flat in execution so without seeing pictures that number is just a hypothetical.

Things like the HID headlights are a red flag for me that cause me to immediately question who did the work and to what level. Most of the known outfits keep the HL’s factory, but the customer is always right.
 
I'd agree with @Markos here. An acquaintence here in SF had a gorgeous, well built s38, Fjord blue coupe that he sold at Pebble for 170k I believe... And that was before the recent craziness. I'd say IF it was well executed, you can't really go wrong. Only other thing I'd say is if you've wanted a coupe and have been looking for a while, just buy it before someone else does. They won't be getting any cheaper or easier to restore and the parts supplies are putting increasing pressure on the restoration projects on the horizon...
 
IMO, stock looking E9s with more powerful engines and 5 speeds are going for more than pure stock ones in similar condition. The most expensive non CSL sold by BaT was a nice stock looking one with an M90 ($240k)

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I see the same with C2 Corvettes. The. two most expensive ones sold on BaT were 63 coupes with LS3 engines and other mods. ($380k plus)...and BaT has sold some very nice, concours 63 coupes.

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The next "road going" E9 through my workshop will be modified to the point of no return, i.e. flared fenders (guards), twin cam engine, race inspired interior. Its all about show and go. Some will love it, and they will line up to buy it, others will see it as farting in church.

Why...??? Well, in my option there is more money to be made as a development from a business perspective than an original restoration. ( I'm ducking for cover)

More specifically to @hlblanton, an S38 powered, sympathetically developed E9 daily driver conceptually is very attractive to a wide range of potential buyers, thus worth more than a standard unit. However, the caveat is that it must be in really good rust free condition, the modifications professionally executed, and applied to a "garden variety" model, not a CSL. A caution on the S38 (a beautiful engine), but they can be quite expensive to rebuild, so condition is quite important there also.

The car in subject sounds like it would be a very nice thing to have.
 
a nice coupe with a great engine s38, m88, m90, b35, euro b34 are all great engines for a coupe. the latter 3 can easily be built with 240 hp, while the s38 and m88 can generate quite a bit more, since they started with a lot more. all will make the coupe perform wonderfully. the more power you add to the coupe means that attention needs to be paid to the braking, suspension and some chassis stiffening. if all of the work was done or guided by a very knowledgeable couper ... it should be fun.

most of us like the higher performance that these engines give to the coupe and will always be worth it for a car that is meant to be driven and NOT a garage / trailer queen. only a high quality concours car is destined to be original and will ultimately be a higher value ... there just aren't many of them.
 
When I bought my car, I spend some time following the cars for sale section of this forum and learning about the elements e9 owners emphasized when commenting on a car's value. I also watched sales prices relative to those comments. Today, you can look at Hagerty's valuation tools and/or history on Bring a Trailer as well.

There are a couple of ways to look at modifications. Obviously, a car that is not modified can readily be maintained using BMW literature, and will be less likely to go "out of style" than a car that is modified.

Engine, five speeed, and air conditioning changes are very common, and are often recommended for the person who intends to drive their car, particularly if you intend to drive longer distances. Because there is a pretty good market for people who buy and then drive these cars, these particular modifications do not hurt a car's value. Other modifications can move more into the personal taste area.

All that said, I start my evaluation of any coupe's value with the condition of the body (rust, paint quality, etc.). A car with a poor quality body is less likely to increase in value, and far more expensive to improve. Where a car has been restored, the quality of the restoration needs to be evaluated.

The next thing I consider is how complete the car is. Trim parts, interior parts and even some electrical parts are not easy to maintain. And this is an area where modifications can be a negative thing. If modifications have been made and original parts discarded, the car is less complete.

Mechanical stuff like engine and drive train and whatnot are further down the list, to me at least. These are things that can more readily be changed and that can be addressed by a wider variety of mechanics, including by an owner that is mechanically inclined.
 
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