Ignition Switch 2

[Laldog]

Turn the key all the way to start, not a click....nothing.

Advised to check ignition switch. Remove said switch by removal of grub screw, which IS NOT THERE!!!

So before I cut the steering column in half with a sawzall to find the stoopid grub screw, I need to take a deep breath and ask a few questions.

The key end appears tight and the spring action of the key works well.

When the key is turned all the way to the start position, there is no click or any evidence that the starter is getting any electricity. I do hear the electric fuel pump and can smell gas in the carbs.


If there doesn't appear to be any slop within the can at the bakelite end and the wires at the rear of the ignition switch all appear tight and secure, does this eliminate the switch as the no start problem?

I guess the next step is to get a volt meter and start doing it that way.

Any tips or suggestions welcome.

 

[sfdon]

The answers are different for an auto vs a manual.
Which do you have?
Do you have 6 feet of 14 gauge wire with a female spade connector at one end?
I suggest everyone with a 40 year old car own at least 1 voltmeter.
Or be rich.....Your choice.

 

[Laldog]

yes,

I've got access to both the wire and a "multimeter", and my car has a standard transmission.

 

[sfdon]

Look at your starter- there is a big post at 4:oo clock. Leave it alone..
There is a a wire with a female spade connector at 6:00 clock. Pull it off.
Put the 6' wire with the female spade on that 6:00 clock postion 1st and then AFTER checking that you are in neutral - touch the other end to the positive terminal of your battery.
Let us know what happens.

 

[Laldog]

Yes!!!

That worked great. Engine started to turn over.

Even better was the fact that 2 leads going into solenoid (from what I would guess would be the starter relay??) had been disconnected.

Apparently my mechanic friend had done some "testing" previously and forgot to tell me.

So my question now is:
There are 3 disconnected leads. 2 have female plugs and one is a rather thin wire that has broken off but it's length and location tells me it should terminate somewhere in the area of the starter/solenoid.
The leads should be connected to which terminals??

I was hoping that this would be where my new wiring diagram would be helpful, but it is not.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[sfdon]

Now put your red voltmeter probe into the female spade connector that you removed from the 6:oo position and stick the black probe into the Negative terminal on the battery.
Set meter for approx. 20 volts dc and turn key - you should see +-12 volts.

If you don't get voltage- hunt down the 4 pin connector at the end of your ignition switch wire harness- about 2 feet from ignition switch.
There are 4 wires. Black, red, violet and green. You need to test for +- 12 volts at the black wire when you turn the key.

If you already removed your ignition switch - you can use a stubby screwdriver or even a ket to turn it whild you test it for voltage.

 

[Laldog]

Negative on both tests

The first check of the 6:00 terminal to the negative side of the battery resulted in a none response. (I'm using a 12v test light rather than a meter...does this make test invalid?)


Second check was a little different. Following the 4 wires from the back of the switch did not end in a 4 point connector but rather a straight path to what I believe is into the fuse box. I couldn't see behind the fuse box, and I'm not quite ready to pull the fuse panel off the car so....

Using the supplied tool from the test light, I pierced into the black lead (before going into the fuse box) and connected the other end of the test light to the positive post of the battery.


What resulted was a positive light and audible signal, but at ALL TIMES, whether the key was turned, the key was in the ignition, and even when the key was OUT of the ignition.

Not sure what's going on now.

I think it confirms that my ignition switch is bad, which takes me back to the original question...
If there is no grub screw, what is holding the switch barrel in place...and how, short of dynamite or 6" cold chisel, do I get it out??

I'm walking away now, having a cold one, and saying thanks to generous guys like yourself
who are willing to help guys like myself.

Thanks.

 

[sfdon]

are you saying the grub screw is out or that you can't find it?

 

[Laldog]

No grub screw....

securing the plug assembly at the rear of the "barrel".
I don't mean the grub screw hole is empty, (with the screw being removed or fallen out) I mean the location where the grub screw is supposed to be, the EXACT place pictured in the Mobile Traditions catalog and the on-line blue book shop manual is barren, plain without evidence of any screw, grub or otherwise.

I tried to "spin" the barrel using a scratch awl and hammer, but no go. Whether it's divine intervention (or more likely internal rust), something is holding it in place.

Given the amount I'll be driving my coupe, and the fact that it's been 7 years since I've driven this thing, I'm inclined to think about an external, remote starter switch rather than wrestling 6 months with this and potentially rendering any part/wire within a hammers swing away totally useless.

Thanks so much for your help. I'll keep posts on my progress.

 

[Honolulu]

if there's no grub screw

then you maybe aren't looking in the right place. The little thing is less than 1/8 inch diameter, and in my car was smeared by a dap of paint (primitive threadlocker).

Anyway, if the electrical portion of the switch does not rotate when you try turn it by hand, then I don't think the lock cylinder will either, and you're good, leave it alone.

I think that failures of this item are not common, but I could be wrong.

 

[sfdon]

I have a Nikon that focuses down to 3" inches- do you want a pic of the grub screw location?

 

[Laldog]

Thanks...

Unless your is somewhere other than the slot location pictured in the previous posts, I don't see it being much help.

I've attached a picture of my "location" and trust me, the only thing there are the marks I created with the scratch awl when I tried to spin it. The picture isn't the clearest, but does show where I believe the grub screw is supposed to go.

When I factor in the missing grub (or my inability to find it) with the fact that my wires coming from the back of the ignition switch does not seem to terminate with the connector that have been pictured in other ignition switch posts, leads me to
a couple of determinations.
1. Removing and replacing the ignition switch is going to require a lot more research and work than may be necessary if...
the solution may be just adding a remote push button starter switch. The process seems simple enough, and since I'm not too concerned about maintaining originality, the switch could be looked at as an additional security component.
At this point, it seems a whole lot easier than wrestling with ignition switch removal,(Where I can't even get past step one) buying and then hard wiring in the new ignition switch.
What do you think?

 

[sfdon]

Your pic is correct. Keep in mind that each switch has TWO small parts on it- #1 is the grub screw hole that keeps the switch into the switch socket and #2 a small pin that keeps the switch from rotating as you turn the key. If your switch has rotated- you will not be able to crank the car. Have you checked to see if the switch rotates when you try to start the car?