Ignition switch / key cylinder no start

jvrenaudon

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Norm,

Using an old-fashioned starter button switch as an alternative to the third position on the standard ignition switch in order to crank the starter motor you need to break into the red cable at terminal 30 on the ignition switch and run it to one side of the push switch and then remove the spade terminal of the black cable from the terminal block to terminal 30 on the ignition switch and run this to the other side of the push switch. This ensures that the ignition switch is never called upon to crank the engine. The starting procedure remains straight forward; turn the ignition switch to the second position and then activate the hidden starter switch. Incidentally, I have had the same experience as you on my CSi. I tried a brand-new ignition switch which proved troublesome and unreliable. On the other hand, on my CSL, I am still running it on the original switch after 48 years without problems .Best, John
 

OCCoupe

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Norm, I think the problem is in the lock cylinder as W&N point out. I replaced your ignition switch due to the exact same problem. Less than a year later the problem retuned. Carl said that the new switches have issues and are most likely the culprit. When I removed the switch I was able to make it work using the end of the key or a screwdriver. Nonetheless I went ahead and replaced it again. Now the problem is back. So my best guess at this point is the lock cylinder.
 

Norm!

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Norm, I think the problem is in the lock cylinder as W&N point out. I replaced your ignition switch due to the exact same problem. Less than a year later the problem retuned. Carl said that the new switches have issues and are most likely the culprit. When I removed the switch I was able to make it work using the end of the key or a screwdriver. Nonetheless I went ahead and replaced it again. Now the problem is back. So my best guess at this point is the lock cylinder.
Thanks for the history Mike. I could tell my switch had been changed to a newer one but never thought it was so recently. There are less than 1000 miles on the switch you installed. I will now certainly return the W&N switch. The new switches are obviously poor quality if mine lasted such a short time. They also have manufacturing variations and don’t contact the start position early enough in the rotation to work with a worn barrel mechanism.
 

tferrer

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Not sure if this is particularly relevant, but I just got a new lock cylinder (from bmw) when Don L suggested it might help with the definition of the accessory and the ignition phase of the key and sprung return. There wasn't (barely any) much of a spring return after turning the key the entire way to start the vehicle. After testing with the barrel on the bench, there isn't any difference in feel from the old to the new.

Is that spring return happen in the keyed part of the ignition or the lock barrel? The keyed portion has zero return and it's just come back from Santa Monica Lock.

I hope this makes sense. Sorry for the diversion.
 

sfdon

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I wouldn’t walk one foot in the direction of the post office to return anything to Germany without first examining the cylinder and the lock mechanism socket where the intermediate shaft that connects the lock to the switch and the cylinder. If the socket on the lock or either ends of the shaft or the cylinder itself are worn- your car won’t start.
Listen to Burger and know what you are doing before buying and returning items to Germany. You may be returning the one good part you have.
Again- examine the socket, examine the ends of the shaft and examine the cylinder for wear.
 

Norm!

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Mike and I had a good talk after he posted his message. Knowing I am dealing with two new ignition switches sure sounds like the barrel is the cause. I can look at a cylinder wall and other parts for wear but I don’t know if I could tell how worn parts are if I don’t know what the original ones look like. Mike gave me the steps to remove the upper portion of the steering column and work on it on a work bench. Seems much easier for me than laying on my back trying to remove round bolt heads. If I am unsure about wear, I could bring the could the steering column to a local expert for inspection before removing the barrel.
 

sfdon

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Have you considered just driving the car to Burgers shop and having him fix it?
4 feet of wire and a spade connector does it.
 

Norm!

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Have you considered just driving the car to Burgers shop and having him fix it?
4 feet of wire and a spade connector does it.
Are you referring to John’s suggestion that I install a separate starter button or something even easier? I already made a four foot wire with spade connector and put it in my trunk as a emergency direct solenoid contact from the battery in case I get stuck somewhere with the ignition switch not working at all. With that I can drive it without worrying about needing a tow for that reason at least. I almost got stuck once already before I figured out the way to get the key to work every time. I came home, diagnosed it as the switch rather than the starter and immediately made the hot wire.
 

Krzysztof

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Spade connectors in hands giving a full control over starting process. ;)

As one pic worth more than thousands words...

Here are some pics of the lock tube and the back of key lock barrel.

barrel_ignition.jpg
barrel_lock.jpg
lock1.jpg
 

Norm!

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Thanks Krzysztof. This forum is great! You get help from experts twenty miles away and new members across the pond in Poland. I will try to get some pics of the back of my cylinder while it is in place and can easily see the top side after I remove the lock cylinder. I have never done that but I assume you move it out of the lock position and push a thin screw driver blade into the slot on the side. Is that correct?
 

Krzysztof

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I do agree this forum is great! So many E9-experienced fans! :)

That is why - after finding some interesting posts - I have appered here.

This particular part is from E23, but it was the same over decades as far as I know (E3, E9, E21, E28, early E23/E24).
I bought it as I would probably need to replace it (most of locks in my E9 are being damaged or blocked by dirt and rust). :(

To slide the lock barrel off from the metal holder ....
There is s a hole (~2-3mm) about 1/2" from the edge (key side), being in-line with the key surface edge when it is in OFF position.
You need to push it by some pin and gently pull the lock barrel out.
@Wladek also talked about it on one of lock threads.

I'm not sure if it is possible once all installed in the steering column.

Interesting is, you do not need to have the key in the barrel (to pull it out).
Just use the edge of the barrel (fixing the black plastic trim around the lock), grab by finger/nails or flat screwdriver. I would use nails or plastic tool to avoid scratching decorative chrome around the lock.
 

HB Chris

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Spade connectors in hands giving a full control over starting process. ;)

As one pic worth more than thousands words...

Here are some pics of the lock tube and the back of key lock barrel.

View attachment 107107

And be aware that the cam looking disc in this pic needs to sit behind that small hidden post in the lower right corner when reinserting the lock barrel into the cylinder or you can’t get it to engage the starter. I had this problem in my e12 and the parts are identical.

DA1656B6-5794-4364-BFDD-3494B1107603.jpeg
 
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