It's the small things in life that...

[jranmann]

It's the small things in life that really piss you off...

If indeed I look more than just a little bit inconvenienced in this photo, then the following might be of interest to other readers here as well.
http://www.bmwclassicparts.com/

The following is the text of a letter just sent to Ben at 2002AD/CSi Parts in Pomona, CA and how this went down is the subject of this essay...

Seemingly a tiny issue at first, it finally ended up that Ben there evidently does not believe that BMW ever installed orange colored cooling fans on any of their cars...
but if you ask him nicely and then send your pal all the way there to get it... he will certainly reconsider and sell you (tell you it will fit?) an 8 blade RED one for thirty-off bucks?

It appears that the red fan here amongst the ones which Todd (Alpinacsi) kindly offered me last night might possibly have been painted but i would not be one to attempt to paint this particular item, given what it goes thru day after day and expect a good result next week. The pic below shows 3 e24 fans used, except the much later post '87 11 blade issue which is of the slightly smaller 410 mm size.

Indeed e24's came with the above pictured Walker ORANGE 420mm 9 blade fan, most on the early issue e28 platform but some 1980-1985 Six series cars, IIRC most also had a SACHS fan clutch.

In the pic the red fan is standard e3 and e9 issue and the black is a run of the mill German fan made, also by Walker and that sub model is also highly imitated today by those (who some say are) a bit less scrupulous to produce such a cheap flimsy copy, and by the way, the MTC which sells for $18.00 on the internet or down the street.

Do note that I just happened to have been asked for and did give you guys a very kind written reference (to a memberl in Austria on the e9 board who needs about$10,000 worth of restoration parts)
and wanted to know if you guys there at the CS shop were reputable...This, despite the fact that I have yet to hear back from you on the promised actual size difference ( circumference ) between an e9 brake booster and one from a 2002tii requested over 2 weeks ago for yet another member's project. yep that's the one you quoted at over $900 bucks.
(more on the opportunity posting this reference will mean for you a bit later in this broadcast)

The trouble for me now is that I've not only arranged for someone to pick this up from you as promised today prior to five PM (and he's on his way without a Cellphone) I also gave up this very suitable orange unit pictured in Atlanta yesterday in the first picture, being assured by employee Werner Von BMW there that your replacement was indeed there, just needed to be pulled and would to be available to me today for pickup...and that you would call...but when i called today at 2 pm to see when I could retrieve it.

AND please understand my chagrin that only now do I hear from the 'voice of BMW authority' at your Salvage Yard that since you yourself have 'never' seen an orange fan you are certain that BMW never attached one to their fan clutches, which brings up the ugly fact that In reality your employee perhaps conveyed the wrong information to me but happened to do it at precisely the right time for maximum damage effect to about five other people helping me get this silly job doe... Do I have this right? Unfortunately I now have no backup either as this one pictured by Todd was sold to someone else last night who just happens to know his orange from his crimson colors!

In Summary: I could have had the one in the photo to exactly match the one I currently have, that oh btw, my ever faithful mechanic damaged and wants to replace for me...(see photo) on my e24 tomorrow...Mostly so it does not come apart while I'm driving it and ruin my new radiator he put in....

Now you have seen 2 in as many minutes...let's perhaps start to get this issue solved using a bit of clarity...OK? Here's the crux of the matter at 4 pm Tuesday the 13th.

Silly it is,,, I now have decided that even though I normally don't make a habit of this sort of thing, since you just let me know that you do have an 8 blade RED fan for me...I must assume that you also won't notice that even now as I email this to you that you may then positively enjoy reading the text of this message in full, which is being posted tonight right below the rather colorful recommendation I gave CS and 2002AD yesterday...I do hate to use the space there for this somewhat demonstative purpose but I do need to correct my passing along of some more incorrect information regarding your establishment and it's reputation for accuracy and adept understanding of the issues involved.... In other words I said you were OK and actually, try as hard as you do, you are not...
and at the speed the e9 board runs these days which is very slow, it should be front page there for about 2 weeks...so likely a couple hundred folks will read it and hopefully maybe they may source their parts from someone who knows how to dial a telephone and provide the ever more expensive items to the world with a bit more class and panache let alone accuracy.....This, as I often say , " Could happen?}

I also think if you find me a fan and have it to Crestline CA (92322) at Dave's Garage by tomorrow afternoon at the latest... That would be just Peachy (NO Ben. not Orangey.... Peachy) and of course this mitigation would be well within my tolerance for error and omission. LIkewise I will then post that joyful tiding there as well...to assuage somewhat the certain return of damage as is my own policy that I initiated years ago by simply being trustworthy enough to pass along a good word or parse the correct sequence of events as they unfold...

BTW, Dave's Auto Body is at 909 338-9008 do ask for Joe the owner there, he will pay you. May this kindly be possible or can I/we expect more of the same nonsense?

 

[FlyWulf]

Ouch!

Bum deal, sorry to hear about it.

Was there any damage as a result of the fan blade letting go?

The thought has always been in the back of my head that these plastic fans have a finite service life and should be removed from service before something like this happens.

The question is when should you retire your old unit?

Smile, because new parts are available.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[acat2002]

Wow, hope I don't p*ss you off anytime soon!
Sorry to hear about your frustrations, and I'm sure you're going to dislike some of what I'm about to say, but......

I'm on the east coast and have only dealt w/ CSI Inc over the phone (not in person), but correct me if I'm wrong here in that 2002AD/CSI is a glorified boneyard, right? Lots of parted out cars, some complete, some shells, warehouse full of old parts, right?

I remember going to the boneyard, or junkyard for parts to my cars as a teenager. The overweight pedophile named bubba who never left his half-broken chair simply looked at you when you walked in and grunted "...and what do you want?" You pulled the part and depending upon how badly you needed it, the price would fluctuate accordingly. And forget about returns. (okay I embellished a bit, the guy's name probably wasn't bubba and I'm only assuming he was a pedophile because he really had no other options)

So, that fact that an articulate person answers the phone at CSI, Inc makes my day. Assuming the guy on the other end of the phone line actually knows what their talking about is a naive mistake. I think it's our responsibility to know what we're buying and as long as the condition and origin are properly represented, there shouldn't be problem.

I've heard some other negative chatter about CSI Inc from time to time. I've purchased parts from them before without incedent. I'm talking simple bumper parts, nothing too complicated.

That said, I've come to the conclusion that less than 25% of people working in ANY profession actually CARE, or are capable of doing their jobs properly. This includes doctors, lawyers, bankers, mechanics etc, etc. The rest either suck at their job and/or simply dont care. Parts suppliers are no different. Sounds like somebody over at CSI was a little quick to jump to conclusions.

Maybe part of the frustration within the group (not just you) is the fact that there are so few sources for these parts, it feels as though CSI is somewhat of a monopoly who doesnt care. (just a guess),

I just don't think it's grounds for a flame campaign against them.

Let's review:
-don't believe things you're told by people who haven't proven themselves;
-don't expect a salvage operation to cross reference part numbers for you;
-be thankful that you're actually within driving distance of the holy-land of coupes so that you may actually visit the parts IN PERSON.

 

[jranmann]

That said, I've come to the conclusion that less than 25% of people working in ANY profession actually CARE, or are capable of doing their jobs properly. This includes doctors, lawyers, bankers, mechanics etc, etc. The rest either suck at their job and/or simply dont care. Parts suppliers are no different. Sounds like somebody over at CSI was a little quick to jump to conclusions.

I have also come to the same conclusion Acat, although my estimate is a bit lower at around 10-15%. I fully realize the effect of my actions here and also that I may have alienated the (supposed) only good source of CSi parts in my neighborhood, over this seemingly trivial issue. It was my associate that had kinkly driven over there in the rain yesterday (50 miles) that i was thinking of.. his friendship, and absolute waste of his valuable time in the name of stepping up to bat for me and the root cause that really got to me...

On the other hand and in general, if we are at the beck and call of the sort of folk that say one thing one day and another the next then we are all surely lost. If indeed Ben himself were truly NOT a man of his word (and to his credit he did indeed call me back last night, although with the disappointing news that he didn't even have the other unit he though he might) then this indeed might have become a 'flame' campaign, as you say. My assessment though, is that he had knowledge of his employees statements, did not call to warn me off...and was there the entire time. The inconvenience caused was certainly also expressed as trivial by him as I had previously disagreed with his assessment (and was proven correct, although not the issue here) and perhaps getting the part changed out was also perhaps viewed as overly critical by me at the time as well. (* I deemed it a necessity, as if it did fail completely, then say goodbye to the new radiator.. plus a tow, etc. btw, the e24 is my daily driver and other options were not available...

Also, I owned a 2002 for a very long time and know the old 2002 yard quite well... and in years past did live nearby but now it's a bit of a crawl to get there, given the traffic in southern CA, especially... as when it rains everyone that cannot drive properly suddenly has to get on the 405 freeway for some odd reason?

Nevertheless it should also be said that I was asked in PM the other day about his credibility and after posting and assuring our friends in Austria that he was competent and able to aptly put together $10,000 +plus CS parts orders, I felt a responsibility to foward my current experience here in the very same posting where i recommended them previously, given the thoughtless and seemingly careless way in which my own last 2 orders have been handled recently.

Ran

 

[abe3.0CSi]

Well, I ordered a new CSI emblem for my car from them and after waiting a month decided to call. They told me they were going to call me to tell me that the price had gone up 3 fold from their website price...they apologized but I cancelled my order. Why nobody notified me before...beats me. I have had excellent service from Maximillian and when I call La Jolla I get the owner on the phone almost all the time.
I can't understand why in this desperate economy CSI, inc can't provide a little better service...or at least update their prices on their website. Now, mind you...they were very nice on the phone and it may be an isolated case. I would probably order from them again if I need to...but I would call them personally and asked for an email verification of what I ordered including price. Everyone is allowed a bad day...but every day can not be a bad day or else you will loose business.
If you order from them call them and confirm what you are getting with an email....DONT RELY ON THE WEBSITE!
abe

 

[jranmann]

Sorry to say they take advantage and as we waste our time waiting patienty the europeans (IIRC who also got way more cars than the US did) are stripping the cupboards bare and because places like this can make extra dollars on the export shipping charges... and of course the European buyers won't have much recourse if there's a problem and they know it...so this continues until lately the phone rings off the hook there called by guys like us to check up on previous items and they are headed to the beach in Huntington, hoping that their second hand answering machine will take a message....

Sad....

Sorry to hear about that Abe can I help you find one?

Ran

 

[acat2002]

Abe, come to think of it, I had a similar thing happen with CSI. Ordered set of bumper brackets with credit card over the phone. Month later, still no brackets.

When I called up again, they simply said that the order was never processed. Since my CC was not billed and I was extremely busy at the time, I just assumed that it was I who forgot to order. I wasn't in a bind for time, so it wasn't a big deal I just placed the order again (and confirmed a few days later). but I can understand the frustration if you were waiting on a part.

Ran - glad you didn't take my comments to heart! I was sort of poking fun, but also feeling your pain.

Bottom line is that CSI could definately benefit from a little more organization and professionalism, but I've seen and heard a whole lot worse from other salvage operations. Doesn't seem like they're out to scam anyone, they're just "limited" if you know what I mean.

 

[Luis A.]

Hey guys, as someone searching for a coupe this stuff scares me off... Is it really this hard to find a fan for these cars? :confused: Even for my '73 Fiat 500 and the Citroen 2CV, pretty obscure cars in the US, I can get on a website and get most of the parts I would need.

I went to Maximillian Importing and in the Mobile Tradition Catalog I find a fan for models up to '73 and another one after that. Would those not be the correct fans, plain and simple? What am I missing? (I will confess I became exhausted reading the first post and drifted off 70% into it, so maybe I AM missing something important ...)

 

[HB Chris]

Luis,

This post was about an e24 fan not e9. Don't worry parts are available.

 

[jranmann]

they're just "limited" if you know what I mean.

IMHO I think it's more like 'challenged' 2002 guys attempting a play in the Majors who just ran into Sandy Koufax and perhaps never saw it coming?

... Could happen!

...and btw, I did not take your comment in any way other than how you so clearly put it...thank you for that clarity as 'Clearspeak' is also much appreciated AND is (as you will see) freely spoken here.

To continue:

On Abe's issue and perhaps yours too Acat... Note my comment above about the Europeans buying up all our spares? The flip side of that is what we experience in Amerca as a result... and this is purely my own well-considered speculation based on personal experience in other areas of our economy, so take that into account)

I say that it's evidently plain old highway robbery with intent and malice of forethought The Christians called it Usury in the Bible. What shall we all call it without fear of the Romans coming down to burn our little village....Greed?

Abe's part was likely there to be sent when he ordered it.... The 'Seller' just got a much better offer for it after they took Abe's order and were actually so gutless to not even help or offer to clean up the mess with Abe when they screwed him over and sold it to someone else...and it's VERY similar to what pissed me off yesterday.... and exactly like with my own issue, CSi ultimately 'decided' to leave us both in a state of false bliss.. .We left thinking the order was forthcoming and all taken care of, they assuming we just would just what? Wait? Complain? Somehow forget it all because they offered to refund the Card three or four weeks later ?

Then because ABE'S part had been sold elsewhere for more $$$, the salvage folks (who are technically in the new part business, btw but it will take the State of CA Attorney General and the IRS to determine their actual new standing) needed to order a few new Emblems to now fill Abe's order and sadly, then get the news from their emblem supplier guy in Norway that he's doubling the price of his product to the Seller as the quantity they order is not nearly enough for him to pay his rent....Nor the quantity that they promised him initially at that old price... Hence CSi of course has to counter by then tripling the price of Abe's emblem to Abe himself... and recall ABE THINKS (CORRECTLY) THAT IT'S HIS BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY PAID FOR IT.

Is that clear enough?
:mrgreen:

Note: the fan for the CS coupes is precisely the same part number of the e24 up to 1987...I just wanted an orange one, as original...not a Chinese copy.

 

[HB Chris]

Fan differences

Didn't all e9 coupes come with the five blade red fan and the old style clutch (115 21 252 660)? I see that realoem shows a nine blade (115 21 271 846) fan along with the improved clutch, was this introduced on the `74 model? Or is it just listed as a replacement because you can't get the early clutch, hence buy this later fan and clutch setup? These two fans are very different as most of us know because we probably have already updated to the later clutch. There are apparently two options for e24s, this nine blade (420mm) and also an eleven blade fan (410). Were all e24 fans originally orange as well? Just wondering.

 

[jranmann]

Since you've asked and I happen to have researched this issue and discussed it with quite a few on the sister e24 board who own both cars here's my take.

The 9 blade fan was used on e3's and e9's as well as the newer models including the e24's up to 1987 when the 11 blade unit replaced it and the diameter was reduced to 410mm which makes than fan unsuitable for the earlier cars.

The trouble in locating a good one is that the part number (BMW, realOEM etc.) has not changed in more than 30 years although it's listed in many different places for cross-reference purposes.

BMW also sourced several suppliers for fan cluches and those suppliers often, but not always, supplied their own fans.

I replaced my orange fan with one from the dealer yesterday and it's the better Bosch unit used '85-'87.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1320313&page=2 (scroll down)

Originally Posted by JusJAiBee

Yes Fan Is Orange.... THANK GOSH, (inside joke) MAY I ORDER IT?

If you notice on the e24 board my requests for parts from this breaker yesterday she did say and did sell me the Orange 420mm fan off of that car so my assumption is that the Orange fan was initially used on the first e28's and associated platform cars from '82 to 85 when BMW switched fan clutch suppliers from Sachs to Bosch.

Robert Bosch sure had great marketing skills, eh? but also recall that it was his genius that also solved many of BMW's emissions issues associated witht the e3' and e9's with electronic engine management systems and as opposed to the earlier air injection systems on the 2002 he was light years ahead!

Cheers!

Ran

A good basic premiss to remember about engine rotational items, especially aircraft engines that have an odd number of cylinders is that if anyone ever tries to sell you an even numbered of blades for your BMW, such as the eight blade discussed earlier here this thread... run for the hills!

lol!