Jaguar XJ6 Series 1 vs BMW Bavaria

[CSteve]

Dick, the idiot lights were there as they ran out of room. And maybe it was an English thing. And the English economy was in just as bad a shape as the German. And by 1960 their economy was booming in comparison to the Brits. No excuse. BMW dropped the gauge. Boonies, we were driving "The Ultimate Driving Machine." Idiot Lights, Pleeeeeze!!! Inexcusable!!!

 

[boonies]

Totally agree @CSteve. As an owner and a driver I prefer gauges, the bean counters apparently didn't...and won the argument.

 

[shanon]

Interesting comparison in the modern era, the presenter asks the ultimate question: are you going to be on the hwy/interstates or more in the two lane back roads?

In the late 70s/early 80s, in my tweenie years, my dad had both an XJ6 and an XJ12 simultaneously. Both were automatics, the only way they came back then. Today, with both E9 and E3 experience, both 5spds, the comparison is a natural and good one.

I agree that the BMWs are the more engaging 'driver's car' (especially with a manual tranny), but the impression of the Jag's interior and effortless highspeed cruising manners are truly top shelf. The XJ has a different presence and is a wonderful place to cover a long distance: 'grace and pace'.

A Series 1 XJ with a manual tranny and some performance and reliability tweaks, that would be a truly an interesting big 'cat'.

 

[Stevehose]

There are six, repeat six actual, functioning, gauges on the dash cluster of the Jag. They provide hard information to the driver. And they are beautiful. Not an idiot light in sight. I have owned multiple Coupes, Bavarias and 2002s during my long love affair with classic BMWs. And from day one, that would be April 1, 1971, I have hated the cheap idiots who eliminated the real deal. And gave me bulbs in their place.

Possibly because the British engines were a heartbeat from meltdown at anytime hence the gauges, where the German designers were confident in their engineering to not need the extra gauges (ex e-type and triumph owner here so go easy on me!)?

 

[Klassic]

The family had a plethora of both XJ6 (including a manual version) and BMW during the period of when they were new. From first hand experience, the Jaguar was way ahead of the BMW in so many ways. Having said that, Jaguar didn't develop out of that period as well as BMW, so the fleet morphed over to predominantly BMW. This is a time when Jaguar were still quite unadulterated before British Leyland really got involved in influencing design and production values with resulting outcomes. For my money, give me the XJ over the E3 any day, but just don't try to get parts and back up for the Jag in today's world, BMW have them well trumped. (can I use that term these days?).

 

[CSteve]

Stevehose, you have a point. The only serious flaw in the Bavaria and its brothers and sisters is the cooling system. Hence we got a temperature gauge. Long gone from modern cars. One of the many British car flaws, and there were many, is the Ignition System. Hence the nick name, Prince of Darkness. This poster hangs in the dedicated garage of a Master Machiniest who has restored an XKE Coupe to obsessive, perfectionist, OCD original. The electrical system in the Triumph in the poster is seconds from failing completly.

"It's ok honey, get out the two spots and hold them on the dash, we'll get home safely, we've done it a hundred times."

 

[CSteve]

Here is the promised poster for all you Anglophiles.

 

[teahead]

Amazingly, after sorting out the wiring mess for the power windows (was like early e9s without the plug modules for the switxhes) my 76 xjc didn't have any electrical issues.

 

[CSteve]

Amazing, yes, amazing Rob.

 

[ADDvanced]

Awesome discourse.... as someone that knew nothing about either of these cars a very short time ago, I thought the comparison was interesting. Really cool to hear people's experiences with both of them. I think the biggest sticking point for the XJ6 with me is the color, that pale primrose yellow is.... not good. I know it's a really rare color, but man this car would be 10x cooler if it was British Racing Green..... and honestly the prices on them don't justify a respray. That's the other thing. XJ6s are extremely cheap to obtain, compared to E3s.

 

[bmw2800cs]

Wow, look at this one - don't know about the price but a very pretty coupe:

1976 Jaguar XJ6C Coupe - RARE All Original 27k Mile Concours-Level...

This is a concours-level, museum-quality condition all original 1976 Jaguar XJ6C with only 27,000 original California miles, owned by a celebrity car collector in Los Angeles and now by a Jaguar...

newyork.craigslist.org

 

[ADDvanced]

Wow that one is a stunner!

 

[Christoph]

Dick, the idiot lights were there as they ran out of room. And maybe it was an English thing.

Love that. It was a BMW thing. Everybody else had lots of gauges back then: Italians, Mercedes (oil pressure until 80s), Opel (GM) & Ford (Ford) in their so-called sporty models, Porsche etc. Maybe BMW people thought: We are zee engineers, everyssing will run fine wissout fault, no need for gauges. More likely, and that's a fact, BMW gave a lot of thought to driver ergonomics. One of the outcomes was the indicator switch on the right side of the steering column (which I despise). Another were few gauges. A multitude of gauges was probably regarded as distractive for the driver, i.e. keeping him from concentrating on the road and noticing information from the vital gauges. Having said that, the first owner of my E3 had a pair of VDO gauges (oil pressure & temperature) installed below the radio, I am very happy about them.

The Jaguar XJ Series 1 are absolutely beautiful. BMW M30 & Jag engines are widely regarded as the two best mass-produced inline sixes since the war. E3 & XJ6 were both first presented on the same weekend, September 25/26, 1968. The Jaguar engine is said to dislike high revs but somehow they must have won the "24 heures du Mans" five times during the 50s with it. The XJ, especially Series 1, offer hardly any space for rear passengers and even less in the boot. Still, it would be nice to have one. More of the E3-Club think that way.

 

[teahead]

Wow, look at this one - don't know about the price but a very pretty coupe:

1976 Jaguar XJ6C Coupe - RARE All Original 27k Mile Concours-Level...

This is a concours-level, museum-quality condition all original 1976 Jaguar XJ6C with only 27,000 original California miles, owned by a celebrity car collector in Los Angeles and now by a Jaguar...

newyork.craigslist.org

That's an awesome example. Only thing I'd change is to put the Euro bumpers on there. E.g.:

 

[day66]

Received wisdom is that the 3.4 XK engine was the strongest. The 4.2 is pretty ropey, usually worn out after 60k miles, the V12 is a different ball game but be prepared to sell organs to pay the fuel bills. Must try to find so photos of the ones we had..

 

[tferrer]

Received wisdom is that the 3.4 XK engine was the strongest. The 4.2 is pretty ropey, usually worn out after 60k miles, the V12 is a different ball game but be prepared to sell organs to pay the fuel bills. Must try to find so photos of the ones we had..

As an owner of an 4.2l e-type and with experience of my fathers XK, I'd argue there isn't much of a difference between the engine re reliability given the engines received maintenance on a similar schedule and to a similar level. They have different characters but I personally know of 4.2's with well into 150k miles. The issue with Jag engines are that many of them came to the states didn't have knowledgeable mechanics servicing them and when things got a little wonky, they were parked up for years and years. They were cheap (not recently) and they were beautiful so many a buyer with rose colored glasses (sound familiar?) bought them and tried to get them up and running on the cheap. My e-type is 752 times as reliable as my CSL. Not even in the same hemisphere so there's that data point as well!