mallory distributor & Stahl Header Question...

[bimmerboy73]

folks. input is welcomed. i'm considering replacing my old questionable point/vac advance distributor with the mallory 45 series mechanical advance unit and was wondering if anyone here had experience with it. I've been told that its the distributor of choice for those running triple webers without the vac line. In the description it states that it connects to an electronic ignition control unit... so i'm assuming that this would have to be purchased with the ditributor?? or can it be run without like a pertronics unit. Forgive the ignorance. This is my first time through the ignition / timing chute and i want to be sure i'm doing it right.

http://www2.partstrain.com/store/de...utor/1973/Base/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/M114567201.html

Thanks in advance!

Richard

 

[gpetrus]

edit: I reread your post, and see you are using triple Webers not FI, sorry

 

[jmackro]

I don't remember any discussions of a Mallory distributor here on the E9 Board - your posting is the first that I've heard of it (not that I'm any sort of an expert). My advice would be to contact Mallory tech support to be SURE of what you are getting, before shelling out $446.66. Don't bother calling "partstrain.com" - they probably just forward the order to Mallory for drop shipping - call Mallory directly.

 

[bimmerboy73]

misspoke there re mallory being the choice distributor. was talking generally about mechanical advance versus vac advance when using triple webers. Problem is that Mallory seems to be the only company left that makes a centrifugal advance dizzy for our cars. The only other option would be to buy a stock dizzy and have it modified but i'm not sure what all is involved in doing that (specifically... i understand the concept but am not sure how time intensive or $$$ it is... or who locally might be able to do it).

I've also considered just pulling the points in the distributor i have now and going the pertronics way but am not clear as to whether or not that would be preferable to the mallory (or mech adv option). I've heard that for max performance, you have to ditch the vac adv dizzy. But then there are those that feel the Mech adv dizzy's cause premature engine wear. Dazed and confused on this one. SOmeone care to make this decision for me? :wink:

 

[bimmerboy73]

I don't remember any discussions of a Mallory distributor here on the E9 Board - your posting is the first that I've heard of it (not that I'm any sort of an expert). My advice would be to contact Mallory tech support to be SURE of what you are getting, before shelling out $446.66. Don't bother calling "partstrain.com" - they probably just forward the order to Mallory for drop shipping - call Mallory directly.

i havent seen extensive discussion on this distributor but it has been mentioned a time or 2 and i think that there are a couple of folks on here that are running it. I was turned onto it by the folks at Korman Autoworks. i called mallory last year and confirmed that the dizzy is for our cars. The guy also said that to his knowledge it is the only one being produced... and it is EXTEMELY hard to come by. I had the option to buy one then but at almost $700 i didnt think it was worth it. Now the problem isnt price, its finding one at all.

 

[bengal taiga]

Re: mallory distributor

f considering replacing my old questionable point/vac advance distributor with the mallory 45 series mechanical advance unit and was wondering if anyone here had experience with it. I've been told that its the distributor of choice for those running triple webers without the vac line.
Thanks in advance! Richard

You beat me to the punch. I didn't understand why this is the distributor of choice, unless it is because the sidedrafts do not provide a above throttle plate vacuum source. No doubt Mallory makes good distributors. I have used them back when they made dual point distributors and I had one similar to the one advertised on a later model Mustang. A new distributor presumptively has tighter tolerances than your old stock unit and is more likely to give a more precise distribution of electricity to each cylinder. That being said, your current Bosch distributor may offer close enough performance so you might not know the difference. Any competent speed shop in your area with a distributor machine should be able to analyze the wear and specs of your distributor, and if necessary, recalibrate the mechanical advance.

No matter what distributor you choose, selecting an ignition advance curve is not purely dependent upon carburation. Other factors to consider: compression, cam design, exhaust design and anticipated operating range.

I would encourage you to abide by the wisdom of others who currently run triple side drafts and their ignition experiences. If the car is going to be driven to the limit (competitively) you do not need a vacuum advance. Vacuum advance proves its value at part throttle by complementing the centrifugal advance and permitting better fuel economy. The notion of engine wear due to a pure centrifugal advance is unknown to me nor do I understand it.

You might be interested to know that on the d-jet models (at least the handful I have worked with) the distributor has a vacuum retard that is primarily felt at idle or off-throttle (high manifold vacuum). It does not have a vacuum advance.

hth

 

[bimmerboy73]

Re: mallory distributor

Thanks for the input! in my case the carbs (and manifold) do not have vac ports so the line is currently disconnected. The original setup was carbed as well with 32/36's.

So is it accurate then to say that a vac adv (or retard) dizzy with the vac line detached can equal the performance gain of a mechanical adv
distributor? The local 'grey hairs' i've talked to have tried to steer me clear of keeping the vac adv dizzy on the car for the undpredictable timing swings you can get. I've witnessed the 'wabble' or 'bounce' myself on my car when setting the timing. Guess this could be due to the dizzy just being worn but its consistent with the challenges my mechanics claim are inherent in mating a non mech adv dizzy with triples.
To be clear, when i say performance, i use the term loosely. I'm not looking to hotrod the car or race it and i dont drive like a lunatic. i do however enjoy the occassional spirited drive through the local county roads and have been known to nail the throttle every now and again - but within reason. i simply want to maximize the potential of the parts i have installed on the car (for streetable use)... in other words, i want it to haul ass without going overboard and assemble a respectable combination of complimentary parts and accessories. Not terribly concerned with the loss in fuel economy so the gains afforded by the vac line arent an issue.

I will be adding a cam and potentially headers and exhaust (although from what i understand there isnt much to be gained by modifying the exhaust end of the m30). the motor is the 3.5 from a euro 635 csi so i'm assuming its the higher compression version (havent verified compression yet). So i have a pretty clear idea of where i want to go with the car, just not sure what to do on the ignition end.

Eager to hear what other folks with triples have done...

r

 

[Bill Riblett]

I have a Korman Stage 2 3.0l with triple 40s and a "008" distributor. It has vacuum advance that is not hooked up. Works great. Engine has 9.5 pistons, Stahl headers, 300 degree cam and headwork. I have an MSD-6, but still using points. Some day I will get around to a Pertronix.

 

[bengal taiga]

Re: mallory distributor

The carbs (and manifold) do not have vac ports so the line is currently disconnected. The original setup was carbed as well with 32/36's. Is it accurate then to say that a vac adv (or retard) dizzy with the vac line detached can equal the performance gain of a mechanical adv
distributor?

Tuning these engines is a bit of a black art. There are many tuning books and magazines on the subject and I suggest you scrutinize them. Different engines with different demands (compression) (size) and application (automatic v. manual) have a need for different ignition timing. This includes overall ignition advance and the curve or rate of advance. You add carburation, camshaft variations, exhaust and drive ratios and the advance rate may need adjustments to reap the fruit of the other modifications.

Sight unseen, I would expect that the advance curve in your current distributor has a shallower curve than you need for your carburettors. Moreover, since you can't make use of the vacuum advance, you are even more handicapped. The easiest workaround might be to merely maximize timing by ear but that is hit-or miss and not necessarily the best approach. However, the right tuners ought to be able to refurbish and recurve that distributor.

Even if install an aftermarket distributor, it is doubtful it will be set up with an advance curve suiting your custom needs? Gray hair is no guarantee of anything unless that person is specifically familiar with your needs and knows what works with your application or knows how to determine what works. You might do your own research as to the various advance curves in the distributors used in the M10 engines. As a starting point, you might consider the distributor advance curve/s for the csl's, maybe for obvious reasons.

Again, there is a lot of available information on this subject if you are willing to look for it and sift through it. There are also a lot of professional tuners mentioned on this board. Korman in North Carolina and Carl Nelson in California, Metric Mechanic come to mind.

Good luck.

 

[Bill Riblett]

Bosch 008 Distributor on Korman built Stage 2 3.0l engine

The full Bosch part number on the distributor on my Korman-built engine is: 0 231 184 008

Korman's tune-up specs for this engine (described above) are:
Timing: 22 degree ball on flywheel at 1200 rpm
Dwell: 35-41 degrees (point contact gap at .014 - .016")
Plugs: NGK BP6ES or Bosch W175T30
Valve clearance: cold, .010 - .012" (Korman K300 reground cam)

This engine was built in 1980, hence the old style part numbers.
I have a dyno sheet signed by Korman showing 245 HP @7200rpm

The distributors were sold back in the 80s as "euro spec". I don't know what the original application was. I bought one for my other CS sometime in the mid-80s and it worked at least as well as the original distributor. In this case, the engine was stock, except for Weber 32/36s and a Headercraft header. In this case, the vacuum advance was hooked up.

 

[nealf]

This post is interesting to me because

I just swapped the OEM distributor back to the one that came in my car when I bought it. It is a Roto Faze, custom out of California. It is a hipo dual point distributor using 2 sets of NLA Mallory points which I am having a very hard time sourcing. It also uses a 6 cylinder Ford Mustang cap and rotor. My car runs much much better, even running on one set of points currently...





nf
'70 2800CS
'72 Tii

 

[bimmerboy73]

thanks to everyone for the input. All the debating about the distributor got the wheels turning. I've been putting some thought into where i want to go with the motor and so consulted Ray Korman again (i've talked to him and c nelson before re the car). He's given me some fairly solid direction as to what mods to make....

schrick 280 cam
Dual Valve Springs
Korman Stage 2 Polished Rocker Arms
Titanium Valve Spring Retainers
Stainless Steel 1 mm oversize valves Int 47 mm, Exh 39 mm
Korman/Stahl tuned headers, ceramic coated
Bosch 008 Dizzy - if i can find one... or the Mallory series 45

So wouldnt you know it, browsing the web recently i came across a set of Stahl headers (1 3/8" primaries) for sale at a reasonable price. Question i have is whether the primary diameter is too small for the 3.5 l motor- 83' Euro spec - (BTW, is this motor the m90?) and the mods outlined above. I'd love to pick them up but dont want to commit to the headers if they are going to handicap me down the road. The seller informed me that the headers were taken off of a 2800CS. I plan on giving Ray a ring in the morning but figured that since i have everyone's attention i'd ask here first... And wanted to get some opinions as to the quality of the Stahl product in terms of fitment, sound and performance. I'm sure there are a few folks here on the board with them.

Thanks again

 

[texcarguy]

Mallory Distributor

I too am running triple DCOE's, and have the vacuum port blocked off on my stock distributor. The car just screams... couldn't want any better.

As far as the Mallory, I just bought a Mallory dual-point, centrifugal-only advance distributor for my beloved '39 Ford. Same issues... running multiple carbs, not enough vacuum to drive the stock vacuum-only (no centrifugal) advance.

As far as I can tell, the Mallory has improved performance on the Ford but marginally. However, I have to say I was very underwhelmed with build quality and documentation (non-existent) with this Mallory unit.
The distributor came in a box clearly labelled "Electronic, magnetic pickup distributor" which caused me great alarm, since I'm running 6Volts positive ground on the old Ford, and hence all electronic ignitions are out of the question.

However, when I opened the box, sure enough, here was a mechanical-only, dual point distributor. But, get this, even the permanent metal label on the side of the distributor said "Electronic, point-less distributor" or something to that effect. Interestingly, they managed to slap a one-page sheet on how to adjust advance for a Ford Y-block engine (not mine), with procedures that had no application to my distributor.

finally, the construction of the unit frankly smacks of "built with parts from Ace Hardware"... the original 1939 distributor made this thing look like a piece of junk. But... it works. I can't wait to replace the dual points at $15 a pop. All in all, I not a big Mallory supporter at this point.

Back to your issue: Why not retain your original dizzy, then add one of the MSD units which electronically controls the timing, and is adjustable? This will be much cheaper than the $500 or so I saw quoted for the Mallory unit, and you'll have the benefit of the boosted spark, plus infinitely adjustable advance curve?

 

[bengal taiga]

Re: Mallory Distributor

I just bought a Mallory dual-point, centrifugal-only advance distributor for my beloved '39 Ford. Same issues... running multiple carbs, not enough vacuum to drive the stock vacuum-only (no centrifugal) advance.

Quality obviously varies. I had a collection of distributors that had a few versions that looked like rejects aka no show stoppers. Possibly some of the rejects made it to the street for a discount. I once heard at a speed shop that some were rebranded. Who knows? Does your Mallory have any markings indicating where it was made?

No Vertex magneto :?:

 

[texcarguy]

Re: Mallory Distributor

I just bought a Mallory dual-point, centrifugal-only advance distributor for my beloved '39 Ford. Same issues... running multiple carbs, not enough vacuum to drive the stock vacuum-only (no centrifugal) advance.

Who knows? Does your Mallory have any markings indicating where it was made?

No Vertex magneto :?:

My Mallory looked nice and new out of the box.. machined aluminum body, but assembly was shoddy.. cap clips installed at an angle, points not set (I know, a small thing, but when they give you a specific setting for the flathead, why not just go ahead and set it correctly when installing?)

I imagine these things come ftom China as do all good things these days!
Here's a pic of my 8BA flathead (sorry E9ers for the off-topic. didn't start off this way):

PS... that's a cool ratrod you've got there!