More 5 speed swap problems ?

J

John Buchtenkirch

Well-Known Member
Messages
650
Reaction score
7
Location
Glen Cove, Long Island, NY
I got the correct 12x32x10 (.473”x1.259”x.392”) sealed pilot bearing for my the crankshaft in my 72 coupe but the bearing is obviously too big for the formally automatic crankshaft hole. Is there a steel bushing in the automatic crankshaft hole to reduce the size to .826” (roughly 21 millimeter) for the snout on the torque converter ? Or is there a 12x21x10 sealed pilot bearing available for converting cars with automatic crankshafts ?

I cleaned off the back of the crankshaft with paper towels and lacquer thinner and while I can see circular machining marks real well I can’t pick up a break between the crank and a possible bushing so I don’t want to spend time trying to remove something that may not even be there. As always any thoughts or input on this is much appreciated. ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
5-speed swap

John,

I would have to fight the snow to get to my shop to check, but I am pretty sure the pilot bearing goes in the flywheel. Bolt on the flywheel that you are using for the swap and your problem should be solved.

Regards,
 
SAD7tdnx4C-GXwyT_zVpJicWFTNklJQUWOnrpyZX6GXmJqanFusm5iZW5efpJefn6kNE9D31jQ1dMoOKstPdK3z0sgrSGRgA


This is the other bearing that shows up on a web part search. Made by Reville. I did a parts search on thefind.com and it shows up as being from a vendor on Amazon.

There are two flywheels that show up on the parts search, one being thicker? But no other info on wether it takes the smaller bearing.

I tried Timken and it didn't show up in the size you asked.
 
mikes said:
John,

I would have to fight the snow to get to my shop to check, but I am pretty sure the pilot bearing goes in the flywheel. Bolt on the flywheel that you are using for the swap and your problem should be solved.

Regards,
Click to expand...

No sir, the stick flywheel I have from the 73 Bavaria has a 1.655” hole which is slightly bigger that 42 millimeter. But thanks anyway :-D. ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
sfdon said:
John- I posted pics of the different flanges for you-
There is no such thing as an auto crankshaft.
The correct pilot bearing fits from e3 to e34

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=11211709681
Click to expand...

Okay, if there isn’t a automatic crank with a smaller hole I should assume that the .826” hole I measured with my calipers is actually a steel bushing I need to pull out of the crank --- right :confused: ? I didn’t want to machine up an expanding puller till I was sure. Thanks and where would I find the pics you had mentioned ? ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
BW vs ZF

Sometime in the history of E9s and E3s, ZF autos were used. If it's anything like the manual trans it wasn't for long.

From the SSR archive on the subject of trans swaps:

"Now, it's time to sort out the pilot bearing situation; if you had a Borg Warner automatic, there will be no bearing inside the end of the crankshaft. The ZF has one - pull it out (I don't know HOW - I had the BW). Now go to BMW and get a new pilot bearing for a manual trans - depends on the model. Put it in. (GREASE!) "

Someone back then knew something we haven't seen for some time.

It must be what's left in the end of your crank.
 
The transmission tag reads;
Automatik Getriebe Modell 65
made in England
Hersteller:Borg Warner limited U.K. fur:
ZF-Borg-Warner-GMBH
sarabrucken.
Which of course makes it a :confused::confused::confused: ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
That would make it a Borg-Warner unit.

As for the pilot bearing, I used a toggle bolt. Once I got the flanges behind it, the thing came right out.
 
Bushing removal

I load the bushing with grease, then hit the end of the pilot tool, forces the bushing out. Works 9 out of 10
 
Well I quickly machined a concrete anchor (the type with the 4 fingers that spread out) into sort of an expanding mandrel and tried to pull out the bushing this morning.
!1a1000.jpg
After giving it about 30 good shots with my Morgan Knocker (an auto body slide hammer with a 9 lb. slider) I’m now about 99% sure as I had suspected, there is no bushing. Possibly there is a non original block or crankshaft in the car --- I don’t know the entire history of the car so who knows ??? So I’m stuck with a .826” to .828” hole in the crank. I called the bearing warehouse and the only correct spec. bearing that fits is very narrow, being only 5 millimeters wide. So I have ordered some Oilite bronze bushings from McMaster-Carr that I will machine to fit. Not my first choice but it seems like my most realistic one for right now.

I also looked up some of the junkyards I used to do business with looking for a flywheel but no success. Being I’m going to have to bite the bullet on the flywheel I’d like to buy one that I can use for an injected 3.5 swap at a later date. So I’m wondering :confused: what flywheel from what year car I should be asking for ? Thank you ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
John- Double 02 Salvage has 100's of flywheels in stock- every flywheel used in the last 40 years. A Motronic 1.3 conversion can use a 533i lightweight flywheel, a Motronic conversion using the bellhousing sensors can use the e28 535i flywheel. Cost is 125 bucks. I posted a pic for you of the 535i 28 flywheel - does it match the one you have?
Please measure with your caliper the OD of the auto input shaft where it goes into the crank- I will compare that to the Getrag and ZF autos and 4 speeds I have access to.
 
Sfdon, the centering hub on my torque converter measures .787”. The flywheel I have came out of the 73 Bavaria parts car and has a ring gear in poor condition. I’m just trying to think ahead a bit, if I have to pop for the shipping I might as well go for a flywheel I can use for a possible future engine swap, even if it costs a bit more. Thank you for your input on that subject. I just don’t know where :confused: or how :confused: to access the pictures you have posted for me ? ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
Bearing

John- Check these components out. These needle bearings need RC60c surfaces to work, so you need to bush the shaft as it's probably not hardened. End result yields 12X21X14, 14MM wide- I think as close as you'll come to your target. Perhaps you can pick up 4mm somewhere.

HK-1514-RS Needle bearing shell type single seal http://www.consbrgs.com/index3.html


IR-12X15X16.5 Inner race (grind wiidth to suit) http://www.consbrgs.com/index3.html.


Use the inner race on your shaft and shell type needle bearing in your housing with some medium strength retaining compound(loctite RC601). You'll have to order these through your local bearing distributor like- Motion Industries.(that's if you can wait) They may have them in their system somewhere. They are a national chain.
 
Last edited:
A little history on BMW cranks...

At one point cranks were either drilled to 21mm or 32 mm.
When you ordered a tranny you were prompted to provide the info as to what size input shaft you wanted.
The 32 mm uses the "Big" bearing and the 21 mm uses the "Small" needle bearing..
As some people did NOT like the "Big" ballbearing- BMW came out with a shim to convert the 32mm hole to a 21 mm hole. Whether you have the big hole with the shim or the small hole and no shim- I don't know.

Shims are still available...

BMW sells both the small needle bearing as well as the big ballbearings as OEM factory parts.

Call Marshall at Double 02 in Hayward- he has both in stock and can ship you the part.

510--782-2002
 
Part number and pic and info for you...


Select Year and Model above to start Pilot Bearing - Needle type 18mm x 21mm x 12mm
Fits BMW : 1600 / 2002 / 2002tii / 2500 / 2800 / 2800cs / 3.0 CS / 3.0/Bavaria / 3.0si / 320i / 528i / 530i / 630CSi / 633csi / 733i
Part #: 11 21 1 276 551 ( 11211276551 ) $14.95 Select Year and Model above to start

http://www.bavauto.com/fland.asp?pa...ampaign=googlebase&utm_source=11 21 1 276 551
 
Is part #15 in the following drawing what your supposed to use as a lower block to bell housing brace when installing a Getrag 265 in our coupes.
!1aabrace.jpg
If so I assume it replaces the stock driver’s side corner brace to the bell housing ? Does it do double duty as a dust shield or is there a sheet metal part that works in conjunction with it ?

Also do I have to have a custom hydraulic hose made up for the clutch or is there a longer one available from another model BMW ? The one from the Bavaria parts car seems about 8” short. THANKS as always :-D ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top