? mounting a harness to the parcel shelf ?

[kwyjibo]

hi all,
Does anybody have photos of a harness mounted to the parcel shelf?
If I recall correctly, an early incarnation of Carey Iida's Alpina coupe had a set of Autoflug harnesses installed, with the retractors mounted on the shelf (just aft of where the rear headrests would be). Those of you familiar with old 911s (late 60's) know that there are factory mounts on the shelf for this purpose. I'm looking for some ideas along those lines.
Thanks!

 

[shanon]

your ears must have been burning or you were ease dropping!
was just talking harness stuff with another E9er this afternoon.

this is a pic I had found on the Net a while back...not sure which E9.

HTH
-shanon

 

[kwyjibo]

Thanks Shanon!

I'm guessing from the photo that a (grade 8?) bolt and a large fender washer were used to fasten through a hole drilled into the parcel shelf. I really don't want to do this...

My recollection of Carey's car was that the reels were mounted in the trunk and only the clasp was visible when disconnected and retracted. The belts were presumably fed through channels behind and above the rearseat backrests. Of course, I now can't find any photos of this so I could be way off.

Curious what your solution to this will be?

Thanks again.

 

[jmackro]

I'm guessing from the photo that a (grade 8?) bolt and a large fender washer were used to fasten through a hole drilled into the parcel shelf. I really don't want to do this....

You really don't want to do this because of what?

To my eye, the parcel shelf doesn't seem all that that sturdy. So, regardless of the grade of the bolt, and the size of the washer, I wouldn't think the thin sheet metal the shelf is made from could handle the load of two shoulder harnesses. I sure hope that whoever built the car shown in the picture Shanon posted added some additional reinforcement underneath the shelf.

 

[shanon]

from what I have researched, some club's tech rules require a reinforcement plate 'welded' to the mount location. ask your club/event holder what is required.

if you don't do go to the parcel shelf, you could mount it to the seat wall as long as you don't excede a 45 degree angle from the shoulder.

If still have the rear seat in....could be a challenge.

here's the harness I am looking at:

http://www.corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_retractable_harness_belts/

more of a 'tuner' set-up, not 'race legal', but good for HPDEs. I'd wager they're much better than the stock units.

-s

 

['69 2800cs]

From a track event perspective, a set up like this would not be allowed by a few organizations for a number of reasons.

-Shoulder harnesses cannot "Y" to a single location
-Any type of harness system must use a seat with holes for the belts.
-4 point systems cannot be used. Must be a minimum of 5.

I don't want to start a debate on that, just an FYI...I've seen guys sent home with similar setups. Check with your organization before travelling, etc.

 

[RogerB]

Vintage CSL Autoflug

These appear to have been on my 72 Golf CSL for many years. The mounting brackets under the shelf appear to be original Golf also.

 

[mpgandco]

On Carey Iida,s CSL they were mounted under the rear seats.The parcel shelf is the correct location.Here is a picture of them.I stored this car for over a month and took many detailed pictures of it

 

[kwyjibo]

Hi guys, Thanks for the replies and photos.

I should have started this with a better explanation - no track. no rollcage. just street. But wife is uneasy about the lap-only belts and doesn't like the potential for getting a close-up view of the windshield in an accident. So, the idea was to go with a retractable 3-point out of a newer car or a harness. Shanon seems to be on the same page as me with the "I'd wager they're much better than the stock units." comment. But, if not fastened correctly, even the best harness system is useless.

So, the question is where to mount the harness when there isn't a roll bar/cage?
-As pointed out, too low (as shown in mpgandco's photo of Carey's car) is bad.
-I haven't measured the drop angle if mounted at the rear seats' stock belt mounts yet, but my impression is that it would not be optimal.
-Leaving the parcel shelf as the best location but not the strongest substrate.
Options include: welding in reinforcements and mounting on the surface as shown in Shanon's first photo or -as I incorrectly remembered about Carey's car- mount the retractor reels in the trunk, maybe to a welded-in shock tower brace, and feed the belt through a slot made in the shelf.

Any more input is greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

['69 2800cs]

4 points are a bad idea, track or not. The reason is when you snug (or fly into) the shoulder belts, you pull the lap belts up off the bones of your pelvis onto the soft stomach-and that's not how you want to restrain a person. Watch :30 of this video to see what happens when 4 point belts ride up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR_FhuSEaU8

3 points are better in this regard because no matter how hard you pull the shoulder belt the lap belt remains anchored to it's 2 mounting points. With 4 point belts one belt is anchored to the other.

Good lord, I hate 4 points...had to get that out of my system....

In my '69 I've gone to a retractable 3 point belt, mounted to the reinforced mount on the parcel shelf, right near the corner where the rear window is. It's the same as that CSL picture above, except I don't have the roof anchor, I just let the belts retract most of the way back when not in use.

 

[RogerB]

Roof anchors/hooks

The roof hooks are just a convenience thing?!?!!?. i.e., easier to reach if you remember to place them back in the hooks when not in use {;>) I believe they were part of the Autoflug package?!?!? This is a very comfortable arrangement and I believe to be a safe one as well!?!?