New outside rear-view mirrors

[Drew Gregg]

W&N had a sale on OEM flag & trap mirrors a few weeks ago. I bought the flags for both sides since the patina on the stainless mirror section of both of my mirrors was not as polished as the chrome bases. The new mirrors came with the gasket and the 4-inch piece that is attached to the doors with machine screws into the cage nuts that are in the special mounting holes in the doors.
The Pebble Beach award-winning restoration shop had removed all of the trim on the car before it was painted. They then used some sort of rubber-coated cage nut on the driver-side with sheet metal screws holding the 4-inch piece to secure it to the door. I mounted the new mirror on this jerry-rigged affair just like it has been for the past 4 years.
The passenger side's 4-inch piece was screwed into the door w/o cage nuts. This must have been how a previous owner mounted the mirror since drilling the special holes could be a problem.
I again mounted the new mirror on the door as before. Below are pics of the passenger side, and the new mirrors.
The mirrors look as nice as the rest of the trim on the car. And when adjusted correctly, you have no blind spots from approaching traffic.
I hope to get the cage nuts for the driver's mirror and mount it correctly.

 

[sfdon]

Quick comment- two types of “rubber” base out there.
The stiff one benefits from a minute in the microwave in a cup of water.
And tape, tape, tape is your friend when assembling.

 

[Drew Gregg]

Don--The new rubber bases that came with the mirrors were quite soft and flexible. The original bases had gotten a little stiff from age. Both the old and new fit the base of the mirrors w/o problems. Taping the mirrors to the door to tighten the grub 3mm Allen screw is a good idea.

 

[vince]

Quick comment- two types of “rubber” base out there.
The stiff one benefits from a minute in the microwave in a cup of water.
And tape, tape, tape is your friend when assembling.

Wish I would have figured the microwave trick out when I was doing mine. Tape, yes tape! I typically always get the blue tape out when doing anything around paint but I was hurrying when I did the driver's side mirror and didn't put any tape down. Sure enough, my hand slipped and I put a 3/16 scratch right next to the mirror. It's been there for years but I see it every time I get in the car.

 

[Mark Jarman]

Greg,

In my opinion the original stock cage nuts for the door mirror are more of a liability than an asset. I'm re-assembling my Coupe after a new paint job and used the rubber well nut in the link below instead of the original cage nuts. Worked very well and when the rubber expands it creates a watertight seal. Also easy to unscrew the bracket if you need to without paint around the holes chipping.

I had a 2002 that used the same cage nut system for the door mirrors and the mirror would always become loose and the paint in the holes where the nut moved around would chip.

M5 Nut-Serts Nut Thread Repair Rubber

Bel-Metric sells metric hardware & specialty automotive supplies worldwide. Visit our website to purchase metric fasteners, nuts, bolts, screws, washers & more.

belmetric.com

 

[Drew Gregg]

Greg,

In my opinion the original stock cage nuts for the door mirror are more of a liability than an asset. I'm re-assembling my Coupe after a new paint job and used the rubber well nut in the link below instead of the original cage nuts. Worked very well and when the rubber expands it creates a watertight seal. Also easy to unscrew the bracket if you need to without paint around the holes chipping.

I had a 2002 that used the same cage nut system for the door mirrors and the mirror would always become loose and the paint in the holes where the nut moved around would chip.

M5 Nut-Serts Nut Thread Repair Rubber

Bel-Metric sells metric hardware & specialty automotive supplies worldwide. Visit our website to purchase metric fasteners, nuts, bolts, screws, washers & more.

belmetric.com

Mark--I agree this is a better "nut" to use compared to the OEM cage nut. The OEM requires a slotted hole to insert them. The rubber nut the shop installed has a sheet metal screw in the center. The rubber top that is above your paint needs to be thin enough to allow the 4-inch piece to be secure to the door. Have you found that to be true? I need to get the 2 rubber nuts that are in my door removed so I can follow your suggestion. thanks, Drew

 

[eriknetherlands]

Another option, but only if you re-skin the door is to make a decent backing plate.

There is one big drawback; if you hit something with it: it'll make a massive dent.

The center hole is small, it accepts an m2 screw. As it's slotted in the skin, and the 2 outer holes are 1mm overdimensioned; it allows for slide for-aft and tilt up/down for perfect orientation of the base.

 

[nosmonkey]

I didn't bother with the cage nuts and used Rivnuts with a healthy dollop of zinc paint on them to seal up any potential moisture issues

 

[Mark Jarman]

Greg,

I just installed my passenger side mirror and took some pictures for you. I think the pictures will answer your clearance question. The thickness of the flanger on the nut-sert is the same as the rubber gasket under the mounting bracket so everything meshes up perfectly and no metal touches the paint. The mirrors I installed are Vivaldi, but the mounting bracket system is the same/similar as the stock mirrors. In the first picture you can see the stock hole for the old cage nut system and another hole with the nut-sert ready for mounting. Before my re-paint the hole did have the little notch in it for the stock cage nuts, but the body shop filled the notch and told me I should use a rivet nut during re-assembly. A rivet nut would probably work well too, but the rubber nut-sert is cool because you don't risk chipping paint and etc. I believe the rubber nut-sert would work fine if the original notch was still in the hole.

Hope that helps. Good luck.
Mark

 

[Drew Gregg]

Mark--Your Nut-Sert rubber flange is the same thickness as your Vivaldi mirror gasket. Your mounting bracket is similar to the OEM bracket. The OEM mirror is designed to fit tight against the metal mounting bracket, which is tight against the door. And the OEM gasket only fits around the perimeter of the mirror base. The mounting bracket bottom is shaved to allow the thickness of the cage nut flange to allow the mounting bracket to be up tight against the paint on the door. The shop used a rubber-coated cage nut something to hold down the mounting bracket with 2 sheet metal screws. I won't know what holes are available until I remove their rubber cage nuts. The riv-nut would be the best method since that metal flange will allow the mounting bracket to fit against the door. But where will I find a rivet tool to install them? Please show us a pic of the mounted Vivaldi mirror.
thanks, Drew (first name) Gregg (last name).

 

[Mark Jarman]

Drew,

Rivet nut tools are inexpensive and easy to find.

Example:

Amazon
O'Rielly Auto Parts

Good demo video on the rivet nut installation process -

It looks like a rivet nut will have a similar flange as the rubber nut-sert. You can see an example of the rivet nut flange in the video.

Checkout the sheet metal screw and insert that came with my Vivaldi mirror brackets. It also has a flange similar to the rubber nut-sert. It sounds like that sheet metal screw insert might be what is currently installed on your coupe.

NOTE: I'm one who believes in keeping classics stock. My coupe was converted into an Alpina by Hardy & Beck in 1980 who was the official US Alpina shop for a short period of time. They installed the Vivaldi mirrors in 1980 so when I did my re-paint and restoration, I decided to keep everything the way Hardy & Beck left it.

As we all have learned, not every aspect of how the E9 was assembled is perfect (lol). If you can, I'd try to avoid the metal-on-metal mount of the mirror bracket on your paint. Somebody could bump the mirror driving the bracket into the paint creating a crease where water can get in. It is like the little spacers someone made to go between the paint and the waistline trim. Check out image 1564. That is my coupe before the re-paint. Waistline trim was metal-on-metal and created a defect where water got in and created a rust spot.

 

[scottau]

Thanks for sharing @Mark Jarman think I'll do this as mine is in for paint soon.

Slightly related question, has anyone considered some form of gasket for the waistline trim. Double sided tape springs to mind, but not looked into this yet.

 

[sfdon]

Drew- Mr. Paul Cain designed the small spacer that many of us install on our cars. Can save from many $$$$thousands of damage to paint jobs. Carl Nelson stocks them.

 

[Mark Jarman]

@scottau

Below are pictures of the spacers I used re-installing my waistline trim. Worked well. I believe these spacers are a "west coast custom" as @sfdon mentions. Not an original part on the car but should have been. I purchased mine from Lolla Independent. Just call them - it isn't something listed on their website. Great people.

If you zoom in on the second picture, you can kind of see the spacer in action. It keeps the trim from biting into the paint. You can tell from the third picture the little gap from the spacer doesn't make the trim install look odd.

Also, when you do re-paint, let the paint cure for at least a month before bolting things back on.

Good luck.
Mark