Noise when accelerating, goes when dipping the clutch

decampos

decampos

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A noise has started to appear whilst driving. At first I thought it was the waterpump on its way out as it's pretty much the same noise I heard from the last car I had when the waterpump failed spectacularly. Developments have lead me to believe that it's not the wp.

It's gotten louder and I've noticed that it generally appears when accelerating, is louder in some gears more than others. It goes when dipping the clutch. I've just changed the oil in the diff and gearbox as it was due – no change in the noise.

I've searched the forum to see if anyone posted anything similar. x_atlas0 had a similar noise (by the look of the description). Suggestions put his way were:

1)..Gearbox mount soft/breaking up
2)..Bearings in the box worn/breaking up
3)..Gilbo (Rubber donut on the back of box to propshaft) going
4)..Propshaft UJs or centre bearing
5)..Clutch
Click to expand...

I guess it could be any of those things so what I've done is record a 30 second youtube clip of me driving and shifting though the gears – the noise is captured quite well. Hopefully someone might be able to recognise the horrible droning/scraping noise and give me a few pointers.

It's a 5 speed overdrive 'box. Is the worst in 5th gear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXbjMz_CTQ&feature=youtu.be

Any help figuring out what the noise is very much appreciated.
 
If noise goes away when depressing clutch it could be input shaft bearing. My 265 has this issue and it starts whining at 3000 RPM in 4th and 5th, I think I can hear it then as I am at cruising speed. Engine noise is too loud in lower gears to notice.
 
Could be pilot bearing in the flywheel where the input shaft goes into. This takes the torque when driving and not when the clutch is depressed.
 
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Thanks for the replies. I was just looking under the car and noticed the rubber donut appears to have a split in it. Would that be enough to cause the horrible (and worsening) noise?

giubo.jpg
 
I noticed mine was spilt like that when I went to replace the clutch, I had no noise symptoms though but it certainly could be the cause. Definitely needs to be replaced, so you may as well do that and the center bearing (mark the alignment of the drive shaft pieces before splitting so they match on reassembly). If that doesn't solve your problem then time to yank the tranny and do the "while you're in there Special" if it hasn't been done to your knowledge:

pilot bearing
resurface flywheel
clutch/release bearing etc.
rebuild slave cylinder
check input shaft play and replace input, ouput, and shifter rod tranny seals
shift tower mounts, insulator foam, and lever bushings

I did this all myself once so if I can, anyone can.
 
Hi Stevehose, Thanks for replying and giving me that list. Very useful. I'll order a new donut and center bearing from W&N tomorrow and attempt to replace them at the weekend.

Did you preload the bearing? if so what did that involve? Did you need to remove any part of the exhaust?
 
I did preload the bearing, just mount it up and before tightening the bolts all the way i pulled it in the direction stated in the manual (forward I think). I had the exhaust off anyway so I don't know if it can be done with it in place. Certainly easier with it off.


decampos said:
Hi Stevehose, Thanks for replying and giving me that list. Very useful. I'll order a new donut and center bearing from W&N tomorrow and attempt to replace them at the weekend.

Did you preload the bearing? if so what did that involve? Did you need to remove any part of the exhaust?
Click to expand...
 
Hm. I watched the clip and although there was some roaring in the background which sounded like engine and wind noise, there was nothing I was able to specifically identify.

As noted above, you're due to replace the guibo. Nice close photo of that creature, BTW. I wouldn't touch the center bearing nor take apart the driveshaft unless I had to, and for good reason. You'll need a pair of 19 mm wrenches - I used one box end and one open end. You can use one socket in place of one wrench. The exhaust may have to come off - you are RHD and I am not familiar with the layout there. The three large nuts up at the header can be quite seized from heat and rust so plan for some penetrating oil and delays there.

If the noise is like another water pump, then look at your water pump. I didn't see anything that would exonerate the WP other than a reference to "developments". The WP is not difficult to check: crawl under the nose of the car and look under the WP neck to see if there is any drip at the weep hole beneath the shaft; also check for a wobbly fan. If it turns out the WP needs attention (drip at the weep hole or wobbly fan), be ready for one or more of the 6mm bolts to shear off. You can ignore one sheared bolt using some sealer on reinstall, but I'd take further action if two shear off, particularly if they are adjacent. During my last WP adventure I was very careful to run a tap into the bolt holes and slather the anti-sieze onto bolts I had cleaned on the wire wheel. Knock wood...
 
Collapsed engine mount causing the engine or gearbox to contact the body when accelerating. This would explain why you get the noise going up the gears and not down.

My RHD E9 had a collapsed engine mount, which was so bad it would lock the steering. The exhaust would contact the clamp bolt between the steering column and the steering box under acceleration. I would accelerate, steering would lock, get off the accelerator, continue steering, then back on the gas.

Good luck,

Rod
 
That the gearbox Ben, remove it and get it rebuilt before you do more damage. Just out of interest, when did you last check the gearbox oil level??
 
Can you hear the noise in 4th gear? I didn't listen to the video because I'm at work, but if others think it may be the gear box you can sometimes tell if its the lay shaft/secondary shaft bearing if it whines in all gears but 4th. 4th gear is a direct pass through the trans and does not use the secondary shaft for gear ratio differences...

Dan
 
Honolulu said:
Hm. I watched the clip and although there was some roaring in the background which sounded like engine and wind noise, there was nothing I was able to specifically identify.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply Honolulu. It was quite hard to capture. It can be heard with headphones. Particularly when I shift into 5th gear. It sounds like a large block of concrete being dragged across a gravel covered concrete floor.

Honolulu said:
you're due to replace the guibo. Nice close photo of that creature, BTW. I wouldn't touch the center bearing nor take apart the driveshaft unless I had to, and for good reason
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to have to. What's the reason not to?

Honolulu said:
If the noise is like another water pump, then look at your water pump. I didn't see anything that would exonerate the WP other than a reference to "developments".
Click to expand...

When the noise started, it sounded exactly like a waterpump failure I once had. I immediately bought a new pump and belt from W&N as they were remarkably cheap (and on offer too). I haven't installed it yet but I will do. As the noise got louder it became obvious that it was emanating from the transmission tunnel. The WP is bone dry and listening to it with a stethoscope revealed no grumbling noises or anything untoward.
 
rodspock said:
Collapsed engine mount causing the engine or gearbox to contact the body when accelerating. This would explain why you get the noise going up the gears and not down.

My RHD E9 had a collapsed engine mount, which was so bad it would lock the steering. The exhaust would contact the clamp bolt between the steering column and the steering box under acceleration. I would accelerate, steering would lock, get off the accelerator, continue steering, then back on the gas.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Rod. I'll thoroughly inspect the mounts when I tear it all down this weekend
 
mr bump said:
That the gearbox Ben, remove it and get it rebuilt before you do more damage. Just out of interest, when did you last check the gearbox oil level??
Click to expand...

Yes, my dad (old school aircraft mechanic) thinks the gearbox is toast. I'm kinda starting the think that may be the case so I'm preparing for the worst. I've bought a new guibo and center bearing that I planned on installing at the weekend but I might instead shop around for a new 'box.

I changed the gear oil a couple of weeks ago when the noise was just starting, oil level had been perfect and looked good. I'd previously changed it exactly two years previous.

How's that Nardi by the way?
 
dang said:
Can you hear the noise in 4th gear? I didn't listen to the video because I'm at work, but if others think it may be the gear box you can sometimes tell if its the lay shaft/secondary shaft bearing if it whines in all gears but 4th. 4th gear is a direct pass through the trans and does not use the secondary shaft for gear ratio differences...

Dan
Click to expand...

Hmm. Interesting. That could be the smoking gun. The noise is much louder in 3rd and 5th than 4th. Thanks for the tip.
 
Thought I'd update this thread with the latest gearbox news in case it's of interest to anyone. I took the car to the Jaymic workshop in North Norfolk who specialize in these cars and know them well. They're always pleasant and friendly but they had it for many weeks on end which was disappointing. Their specialist appears to have replaced a lot of components including the syncros which gave me pause as I used to associate crunching in the gears with worn sycnos and the shifting had always been smooth as silk on the car. I assumed it was only bearings at fault as there was only loud rumbling but I am merely a layperson on these matters. Here's the list of parts (and prices):

Reconditioning of gearbox (specialist charge) £440.00
Front input bearing £64.97
Front mainshaft bearing £8.72
Center mainshaft bearing £30.38
Rear mainshaft bearing £58.34
Front layshaft bearing £34.30
Center layshaft bearing £30.38
Center layshaft bearing sleve £28.40
Rear layshaft bearing £49.99
Syncro ring x4 £309.44
Core plug x6 £2.10
Front oil seal £13.74
Rear oil seal £8.35
Selector oil seal £8.59
Speedo drive oil seal £4.30
Roll pin £1.35
Click to expand...

I've attached a couple of photographs of the parts that were replaced. Some of the bearings appeared pretty seized, however, the brass items looked brand new to my untrained eyes. The old syncros were conspicuously absent which raises a little flag in my head.

I asked them to inspect the clutch while they were in there and replace if necessary:

Remove gearbox, deliver for reconditiong. Remove clutch and inspect (only 30% remaining). Remove flywheel (surface excessively scored). Refit re-faced flywheel. Fit new clutch kit. Refit reconditioned gearbox. Fit new slave cylinder and bleed as required. Adjust idle speed and mixtures. (new injection parts required / advised on phone) £320.00
Click to expand...

All in it came to an eyewatering £2,120.18 ($3465.22) and that doesn't include the new rubber donut and center bearing which I bought beforehand. Anyway, it's back on the road (it was until this morning, is now locked away for the winter). No more rumbling noise, shifts pretty much exactly as it used to – maybe it's a little more notchy now but maybe that's due to new parts needing to bed in? They've cleaned it all up and even put a few new nyloc nuts on it so that's nice.

ass_01.jpg

ass_02.jpg

ass_03.jpg

ass_04.jpg
 
Ouch...

Next time fly me in and I will bring a pre tested tranny for 600 bucks.
 
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