On the subject of Aplina CSLs...

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schnell540

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You know this one Yannick? http://www.mobile.de/SIDDBQQ9AjTv3T...=pkw&sr_qual=GN&top=194&id=11111111269890947&

It is interesting; as an Alpina junkie (my touring is the third 2002 I've rebuilt to Alpina spec, this one with vintage parts to a four throttle A4 spec), I had -- until last week -- only seen pics of one Alpina CSL (ok, I've seen bad vintage pics, but not any of cars that we know have survived). That one would, of course, be Carey Iida's beautifully restored one (which I've been lucky enough to see in the flesh, too). Then in less than two weeks, Yannick's Inka one and this one -- assuming this one is truly an Alpina.

Thoughts?
 
so am i correct that some of the alpina cars were based on csi's rather than csl's (hood strut and rear wheel arch covers, for example)??

assuming yes, thoughts on price?
 
mark said:
so am i correct that some of the alpina cars were based on csi's rather than csl's (hood strut and rear wheel arch covers, for example)??

assuming yes, thoughts on price?
Click to expand...

Mark:

BMW 2800 CS -> Alpina B1
BMW 3.0 CS -> Alpina B2
BMW 3.0 CSL -> Alpina B2S, B3, B4

No Alpina cars based on 3.0 CSi as i know.
 
so am i correct that some of the alpina cars were based on csi's rather than csl's (hood strut and rear wheel arch covers, for example)??

assuming yes, thoughts on price?
Click to expand...

I don't know if any customers brought in a CSi for Alpina to convert. I think the cars they build originally -- not customer's bringing it in for conversion -- were CSLs. As with any of these, documentation is the key, otherwise they could "merely" be cars rebuilt to Alpina spec (as I have done with the 2002s).

Prices for a documented Alpina car? A CSL? Well, if CSLs are going for $50-100k (which might not be unfair to say), what is the worth of a car that is much more desirable and much rarer? I can't imagine a documented Alpina CSL in decent condition going for less than $100k, can you? Carey Iida's pristine Alpina CSL? Whatever someone is willing to pay -- it is too hard to tell (you could ask Chris what he paid for that car, but I don't think he's telling) If it were "merely" a CSi, but documented Alpina? Not a lot less....
 
schnell540 said:
so am i correct that some of the alpina cars were based on csi's rather than csl's (hood strut and rear wheel arch covers, for example)??

assuming yes, thoughts on price?
Click to expand...

I don't know if any customers brought in a CSi for Alpina to convert. I think the cars they build originally -- not customer's bringing it in for conversion -- were CSLs. As with any of these, documentation is the key, otherwise they could "merely" be cars rebuilt to Alpina spec (as I have done with the 2002s).

Prices for a documented Alpina car? A CSL? Well, if CSLs are going for $50-100k (which might not be unfair to say), what is the worth of a car that is much more desirable and much rarer? I can't imagine a documented Alpina CSL in decent condition going for less than $100k, can you? Carey Iida's pristine Alpina CSL? Whatever someone is willing to pay -- it is too hard to tell (you could ask Chris what he paid for that car, but I don't think he's telling) If it were "merely" a CSi, but documented Alpina? Not a lot less....
Click to expand...

Schnell540,

Let's wait for Yannick's answer about this car. As i see there are too much non original or non B2 parts / texts on the car.

Some sources says that Alpina B1 and B2 parts were sold as kit (so BMW dealers could install it), but other sources say that Alpina did built a few B1 and B2 at their workshop.

Remember the unconfirmed case of the BMW 2800 CS with B2 engine and automatic transmission ? Owner said the car was converted by Alpina, after the original owner bought the car. As i remember Jimmy has an 1974 3.0 CSL, which was also converted to Alpina a few months (years ?) later after the owner bought the car.

If we assume that Alpina accepted any BMW to convert, and the owner could choose any engine / chassis / body parts for the conversion, then this car might be an original one. But it we look at the facts we all know in the Alpina history, then this car is a fake 3.0 CSi with B2 engine with some other Alpina parts.

Alpina clearly said in the past years, that they have got no documentation about their converted / build cars in the 70's.

That's why i have wrote that we should wait for Yannick, probably he knows more about this car.
 
Interesting car & thanks for sharing the link.

Since my E9 'infection', I have evolved into another 'Alpina Junkie' and have been collecting any pics that I can find on the rare bird, both street and racing car. (FYI: Did you know the Alpina put their 'Roundel' on the C-pillars of some of their racers...pretty neat)

I think this topic (Alpina E9s) would make an excellent candidate for the new FAQs in process and/or a seperate 'Alpina E9' gallery. Is there anyway we can talk any of our 'knowledgable' board members to contribute some of their research on the subject. An archive of verifiable Alpina E9s/Alpina-Dealer conversions, owner/dealer photos/testimonies/documentation (interviews retired Alpina employees/England's Synter?) etc.? Possibly some sort of "Un-Official-Official" statement on t subject from our 'collective' to aid the collectors/enthusiasts aound the globe. I feel this maybe timely as first hand accounts/testimonials might be getting on in years.

Back to the car, the air dam appears to be more a CSL style than Alpina's.
See Gallery/Documentation & CSIs.

BTW: What color would you call that car posted, Plum Crazy? Pruple Haze? :lol:

-shanon
'70 Euro 2800cs 'Alpina homage/resto-mod'
 
BTW: What color would you call that car posted, Plum Crazy? Pruple Haze? :lol:

-shanon
'70 Euro 2800cs 'Alpina homage/resto-mod'
Click to expand...

It looks like granotrot to me (if I am spelling it correctly), which I have only seen previously on 2002s. Personally, I hate the color. That is one of two or three reasons I am not on a plane right now to somewhere in Germany-- or at least calling him to discuss whether it is really an Alpina...
 
If you troll through the pages on that site there is an Insane Black Coupe with a Killer Body kit on it, looks interesting. Also a couple of tasty 02's in full dress and last but not least a really Red E30 with a s 38 in it.Now if I only understood German

PJ
 
Alpina CSL

My thoughts on the car are ........ it looks pretty nice !!!! But I think the true test will be if the car "letters" from BMW Mobile Traditions as having been sold to Alpina and thus, then resold as an Alpina ..... CSI !?!? Without such documentation it is just another modified coupe (all be it with some great Alpina tidbits ...... )

The lettering on the trunk spolier is bogus or owner added (not unheard off, especially today !!!)

There is no reason to believe the car was not ordered by an owner wanting more than a CSL ....... a true GT cruiser !!! In my mind even rarer by numbers than a CSL ........ possibly !?!?!

Alpina did conversions on the E3 sedans and e24 coupes as well as offering a converted car as an "Alpina" ........ so I think saying that Alpina never did CSI's is a dangerous statement !!! Don't forget that the biggest difference between a CS and CSI is the fuel injection ...... and if Alpina converted ..... the injection would have been removed in favor of triple webbers !?!? My biggest question is why would Alpina order a CSI from BMW to do such a conversion on ....... why pay for injection that was to be removed in favor of Webbers ???? Alpina did work on the injected engines but the technology during the 70's was antiquated by todays standard, so most true high performance was carburated or all out slide throttle direct fuel injection !!!

It is my belief (and might be confirmed by Yannick) that Alpina would sell parts as requested by their dealers or even individuals ...... but if the car was purchased by Alpina from BMW and to be sold by Alpina as a B2, B2S, B9, B10, B7, etc., then the car was improved in every area .... engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, rear end, etc. True Alpina cars seem to be "complete" packages ...... with each area given the necessary upgrades to provide the owner with a true "ultimate driving experience".

My CSL was almost without doubt modified by Alpina ..... at Alpina in a pretty comprehensive way ......... but the car was 1st delivered to the Belgium importer so it can never be a "true" Alpina CSL by the strictest since of the word !!!!

But I love it like it was a REAL one !!!!!

Be Safe all, Jimmy
 
If you troll through the pages on that site there is an Insane Black Coupe with a Killer Body kit on it, looks interesting. Also a couple of tasty 02's in full dress and last but not least a really Red E30 with a s 38 in it.Now if I only understood German

PJ
Click to expand...


LINKS please.
 
Re: Alpina CSL

My CSL was almost without doubt modified by Alpina ..... at Alpina in a pretty comprehensive way ......... but the car was 1st delivered to the Belgium importer so it can never be a "true" Alpina CSL by the strictest since of the word !!!!

But I love it like it was a REAL one !!!!!

Be Safe all, Jimmy
Click to expand...

All Alpinas back then were conversions in one sense or another -- either the owner brought their car to Alpina to convert, Alpina purchased a car from BMW and converted it, or someone converted it with Alpina parts. The ony difference -- IMHO -- is whether the mythical Alpina hands touched it.

Since I like my hands, too, I, too, love my conversions like they were real ones!

And, Alpina didn't really do anything (at least back then) that anyone else couldn't, other than spending the money in developing some of the parts -- but many parts were simply bought off the shelf from the same suppliers and "re-branded." The point is, a car assembled by Alpina is really not siginificantly different than one built from the parts (even if the parts were bought from Alpina or from the original manufacturer).

But, would I love a "true" Alpina car? Of course, who wouldn't?

PS - Jimmy, which of your cars are you talking about? The racing CSL? Any pics?
 
schnell540:

If a car was build by Alpina, then you have got all the papers proving that a car is built by Alpina (at Buchloe). As I know the bmw dealer converted cars haven't got such paper.
 
My CSL, 2275 309 was surely modified by Alpina as it has the entire package, minus rear end cooler ........ this includes a B2 engine (with the 4 digit number stamped in the head and B2 below the correct CSL serial number on the block), Headers, 5 speed ZF close ratio trans, adjustable sway bars front and rear, larger brake rotors, camber kit, gauge kit, etc.

Mobile traditions however confirm the car was NOT originally sold/shipped to Alpina ......... so the car was taken to Alpina and modified by an owner at some point in its early life (no paper work here either). My chief reason for such a belief is the engine is the original serial numbered engine to the car (2275 309) ......... and if the car were modified by the owner or an Alpina dealer, the original engine would surely have been sent in as a "core" and replaced by a "crate" engine from Alpina's inventory !!!!

I can't yet prove my theory (and may never) but because the car is a complete package (including some subtle changes from stock CSL's also, and Yannick knows these and I will not disclose them to the general public to prevent possible forgery) ....... the work almost had to be done at Alpina factory !!!!

I'm very sorry to all who have asked, and I promise to upload pics of the cars in the coming weeks !!!!

Be Safe all, Jimmy
 
some secrets from the 'secret lab'....very 'Q' 8)

on another Alpina note, I have some literature (an early Alpina E3 road test w/ specs) and a Alpina 'menu' of their conversions from back in the day, but are in German......DOH!

Thses might shed some light.

Can anybody here translate German for us. willing to Email or send copies to the 'translator' 8)

HTH
-shanon
 
Alpina

Folks, I live in Germany and speak almost perfect German and I would be willing to translate any Alpina documents. Jimmy Soxrus, my CSL is 2275300, 9 cars older than yours.
My CSL mechanic, MR. Bruno Fabeck used to work for the racing division of Alpina in the good old late 70's/ early 80's when our cars were being raced. His wife still works for Alpina (therfore I know that Alpina has NOTHING/ parts left for E9's). Anything we could help out with... dont hesitate to ask.
Keshav ([email protected])
 
I can't yet prove my theory (and may never) but because the car is a complete package (including some subtle changes from stock CSL's also, and Yannick knows these and I will not disclose them to the general public to prevent possible forgery) ....... the work almost had to be done at Alpina factory !!!!
....

Be Safe all, Jimmy
Click to expand...

Sounds like a solid theory to me.

Jimmy, I sent you a pm off of this board. If you could respond or email me directly at schnell540 at yahoo.com I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
 
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