opinion on lifts

[autokunst]

Hello all,
It looks like we may actually build that new garage I've been dreaming of. Well, a cheaper version of the dream... This will allow me to bring The Raven from 2 hours away, down to a short walk from the back door. I will start a thread on the garage build once it is underway.

But as I finalize the plans, I am contemplating the functionality within. I'd like a lift, and have looked at 2-post and 4-post versions. A 2-post lift is nice, but I think I am leaning towards a 4-post lift, perhaps with the additional bridge jack assembly. I suspect I'll be using the lift for storage as much or more than for work - which is pushing me in the direction of the 4-poster. but I'd love to hear opinions, advice, and suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Gransin]

Both are great in their own way, but if you know that you'll use it as a storage place, there's really no option IMO, the 4-post is the only way to go.
I love my 2-post lift, and since it's mainly used for maintenance on daily drivers, it's perfect for the job.
If anyone asks me, I always recommend the 2-post lift because it's very all-round (except for rocker repairs and storage), but I fully understand the need for a 4-post if storage is a priority
Most important, don't buy the cheapest alternative on the market, one or two steps up from those and you'll have a really nice lift that'll put a smile on your face everytime you use it.

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

Both are great in their own way, but if you know that you'll use it as a storage place, there's really no option IMO, the 4-post is the only way to go.
I love my 2-post lift, and since it's mainly used for maintenance on daily drivers, it's perfect for the job.
If anyone asks me, I always recommend the 2-post lift because it's very all-round (except for rocker repairs and storage), but I fully understand the need for a 4-post if storage is a priority
Most important, don't buy the cheapest alternative on the market, one or two steps up from those and you'll have a really nice lift that'll put a smile on your face everytime you use it.

I'm glad Robert wrote this because I could not have been nearly as concise. Every sentence is 100% accurate! If you purchase a proper 4 post lift with the bridge jack(s) you will be able to do pretty much any 2-post lift job plus have the storage option. IMO a 2 post should be purchased if you are planning on doing lots of work on your car or cars. I never like leaving my e9 up in the air on a 2 post, I'm afraid I'll come to work one morning and find it folded in half, ugh!

 

[autokunst]

Thank you for the responses. Follow up question for @Gransin and @Peter Coomaraswamy (and anyone else):
I am going to have to give this a lot of thought - you both raise great points. Here's a loaded question. I've seen a lot of "frameless" cars with a fair amount of damage after being lifted with a 2-post lift. Are there safe areas to lift an e9 without bending, kinking, folding things?

 

[Mike Goble]

6'1" is tall enough...

 

[Gransin]

Thank you for the responses. Follow up question for @Gransin and @Peter Coomaraswamy (and anyone else):
I am going to have to give this a lot of thought - you both raise great points. Here's a loaded question. I've seen a lot of "frameless" cars with a fair amount of damage after being lifted with a 2-post lift. Are there safe areas to lift an e9 without bending, kinking, folding things?

I've never damaged anything while using a 2-post lift, but it is of course possible if you aren't careful or have any idea about where a car will structurally be able to be lifted from.
I've seen some lift damaged cars, and I'd say it was a lack of common-sense that made those damages happen. Half-rusted or rusted frameless cars can be a kind of exciting to lift from their lifting points on the rockers, and you'll have to lift just an inch at a time until the tyres are in the air to make sure the rockers will stay intact.
The e9 is easy to lift with a 2-post, front lift arms as far forward on the "frame rails" as you can before they turn upwards to the engine compartment, rear lift arms goes under the rear subframe pickup points, it wont bend, kink or fold in half if it's reasonaby solid
If the coupe is very very rusty, it can be difficult, yes.

 

[Belgiumbarry]

if you are to build a garage , install both
for a hobby/storage... a 4 post and sure with bridge jack. ( and a lot of wood blocks )

I prefer my 4 post , yes , sometimes the ramps are a bit in the way to reach something , but on the other hand they are a perfect work bench … i'm surprized how much tools one collects around a work spot ….

A 2 post you always have to load "carefully".... on your knees …. for a quick inspection you are up on a 4 post in seconds.
What i remember as profits :
- building a exhaust line ( or spoiler , whatever) you always see ground clearance
- rough alignement wheels with a rope
- easy supports with wood bridges to lower "heavy" parts or support chassis
- of course you can see the suspension as on the road , not hanging there down
for the rest it's the same i suppose , a gearbox lift and a oil container …
for dropping a complete front suspension with engine … a 2 post . ( rear is no problem on a 4 post )

be careful … that there are no items in the way lowering the lift …….to be crushed or damage car .
What i had in the past years…
After a rally i wanted to quick inspect bottom…. and forgot emergency brake ….going to the control panel , car rolled back of the lift …. to crush the still open door against a post !
My track Porsche 928 seemed to just pass the lift edge with his oil cooler … what we didn't pay attention so far .... One day i mounted lower profile tires… haha, driving off i ripped the complete oil cooler of the car …. no track fun that day !

 

[m_thompson]

Build a two bay garage and get both a two-post and a four-post lift.

 

[autokunst]

I've never damaged anything while using a 2-post lift, but it is of course possible if you aren't careful or have any idea about where a car will structurally be able to be lifted from.
I've seen some lift damaged cars, and I'd say it was a lack of common-sense that made those damages happen. Half-rusted or rusted frameless cars can be a kind of exciting to lift from their lifting points on the rockers, and you'll have to lift just an inch at a time until the tyres are in the air to make sure the rockers will stay intact.
The e9 is easy to lift with a 2-post, front lift arms as far forward on the "frame rails" as you can before they turn upwards to the engine compartment, rear lift arms goes under the rear subframe pickup points, it wont bend, kink or fold in half if it's reasonably solid
If the coupe is very very rusty, it can be difficult, yes.

Well, first off - I am so glad I posted this to the forum. In less than a day, I've already had a lot of food for thought. The early responses caused me to re-think my planned use, and I started to lean towards the 2-post. The way I hope to set the space up, a 2-post will actually provide more maneuvering clearance. Plus, regarding storage, I am forgetting that by bringing the car to the new garage (and also selling the M3), I free up roughly (2) spaces at the remote garage. So storage "shouldn't" be a problem...

And then I read @Belgiumbarry reply and I am back to neutral. I did consider the "bench space" the rails provide. Seems pretty convenient.

The goal is for the garage to be a 3.75 car garage. Two daily drivers, and a third door that opens to my world. But it all hinges on a variance hearing that I am scheduled to appear at - we want to build larger than what the zoning technically allows for. If I get denied, we can still build a concise 3-car garage, but that won't really be the same after dreaming of the larger building for a while. Again, I will post the whole garage saga separately. But I was hoping to narrow down my lift concept here. And the head scratching continues...

 

[Gary Knox]

Stephen,

SO delighted to hear you are going to build the garage. A month after it is in use, you'll say 'WHY didn't I do this 5 (or 20) years ago". And, it is impossible to build it 'too large'!!

Having had my 2 post asymmetric lift for over 10 years, I'd repeat the same decision in a heartbeat. So convenient when not in use (I frequently raise the arms to the highest point, thus they are totally out of the way when working around the car and it is at floor level. Takes 30 seconds to locate the arms to raise the car. I'm fairly short at 5' 8", and I have a 10' 6" ceiling in the garage. Gives me plenty of height and room to work under our cars when it is raised. If you are significantly taller, and/or want a 'high vehicle' (e.g. SUV) to fit, you'd need to have a higher ceiling. Servicing our 4 cars in a 4 season climate, it is amazing how many times I remove/replace tires, and it is incredible for that function.

I had a friend in the business of selling lifts and other accessories to automobile dealerships and other shops when I was selecting a lift brand. He recommended a 'Quality Lift' (brand name), as the best value. It has all the controls etc. made in USA, while using Korean steel for the frame etc. He had just sold 12 of them to a new Kia dealer in town when I bought mine. Both that dealer's shop and I still have them in service. Probably 50X as much usage per lift at the dealer as in my hobby garage!

Cheers,

Gary-

 

[autokunst]

I've been speaking with some lift reps. Starting with @Gary Knox suggestion of "Quality Lifts", I've learned that what they want to sell me here in Wisconsin is a "Challenger Lift" (brand name). They tell me it is the same thing as the Quality Lift. I have decided to go with a 2-post lift, and I've also decided to get one that has clear floor space (the cross bar is at the top). These are taller than my garage ceiling will be, but the local installer detailed how we will extend the posts up into the roof truss space and box around them. I will likely pay the local rep/installer the $600 they get to install the lift with me. That will be money well spent, I think. I've reached out to a few other lift manufacturers, but haven't heard anything back. Anyway, this is progress.

 

[Ohmess]

Stephen -- I don't have a lift, so take these comments with a grain of salt.

If it were me, I would dig a little deeper on the ways in which the Challenger Lift is the same as the Quality Lift. For example, if the frames have the same dimensions, but one uses Korean steel and the other uses Chinese steel, I would not consider these to be the same thing even if they are both advertised as having the same lift capacity.

I would also be concerned about the width of a lift, because it appears to me that most lifts are designed to be wide enough to lift SUVs and Pick Up trucks. I wouldn't be doing this, and therefore would try to find something with a narrower footprint. By way of example, I think Gary's asymetrical lift is designed to allow for a narrower opening than a lift with a base plate.

And if you are working with a more standard garage depth, consider the location of the tracks that determine the path of the garage door when it opens. The standard installation won't allow you to open the door with a car on the lift.

 

[autokunst]

Stephen -- I don't have a lift, so take these comments with a grain of salt.

If it were me, I would dig a little deeper on the ways in which the Challenger Lift is the same as the Quality Lift. For example, if the frames have the same dimensions, but one uses Korean steel and the other uses Chinese steel, I would not consider these to be the same thing even if they are both advertised as having the same lift capacity.

I would also be concerned about the width of a lift, because it appears to me that most lifts are designed to be wide enough to lift SUVs and Pick Up trucks. I wouldn't be doing this, and therefore would try to find something with a narrower footprint. By way of example, I think Gary's asymetrical lift is designed to allow for a narrower opening than a lift with a base plate.

And if you are working with a more standard garage depth, consider the location of the tracks that determine the path of the garage door when it opens. The standard installation won't allow you to open the door with a car on the lift.

Hi Chris,
Thank you for the input. The way the lift folks described it to me, they were literally the same unit with a different stencil on the post. But in looking closer at the specs, they can't be "exactly" the same because some of the dimensions are different. So a good question to ask. WIthin the Challenger line, they had two in the size/config I am looking at. The one that is US made, and the other that has imported components. Both are labeled/certified - and there is about a $900 difference. I am going to look at the two side by side (not sure where, but the lift guy said he'd take me somewhere where I can see them both).

As for width, it seems that all 2-post lifts I can find are about the same width: about 8'-2" or so drive through (between the arms), about 9'-2" clearance between the posts, and about 11' or so out to out. I am okay with this width as it will be more comfortable to simply part a car between the posts from time to time. I also plan to push the lift back a bit closer to the back wall of the garage so I get more clearance in the front. This will make more sense once I start my "new garage" thread.

Also, regarding the older style assymetrical lifts (with the posts rotated about 45 degrees), it is my understanding that they do not make these anymore. Rather, most lift companies are selling a verstile configuration where two of the arms are able to extend longer. They call it "symmetrical/asymmetrical", or "versymmetric". I like this idea, as it allows for the most flexibility.

In checking the specs, the Quality Lift Q10 seems to be a good fit, I think...

 

[Gary Knox]

Stephen,

To be a bit more specific, the Quality lift I have is the clear floor/overhead crossbar. I have a 'cutout' in the ceiling where the posts and crossbar go up through the ceiling (between two 12" joists. I then framed above it and insulated it as well on top and both sides/ends with hard foam. My ceiling joists are all 12", and I have 12" of fiberglass insulation with a plywood floor on top (joists and rafters rather than trusses so I have full storage area in the attic). I also chose the 10K model, even though no car I work on weighs more than ~4K.

Gary

 

[Ohmess]

Yeah, that is a good point on the post width. Less footprint on the garage floor means a narrower opening to move the car in and out.

 

[Sooner]

I have had my lift for about 7 years, 9K, no issues, and a life safer. It is one of the cheaper foreign units

 

[restart]

I couldn’t decide so I have both.
when I got mine, Bendpak had different version of same lift, tall, narrow, wide, short, long.My shop is narrow, so both an are built narrow, and tall. I have 12 foot 4 inch ceiling height and wanted to walk under them. Clear floor is a must, as I followed peter c’s advice for small shop, everything is on wheels..

Aside from all comments so far, one great thing about my four poster is I can put the casters on and roll the thing in and out of my garage. Love working outside. But in winter it comes back inside.
I have parked all of my cars on either for months with no issues. I have too many cars so I needed extra storage.
They aren’t difficult to assemble but you need someone to help lift at a few times during installation. My 4 poster needs a hundred psi air to release the mechanical safety to lower it, which means I need to start my compressor every time I lower. The 2 poster uses a cable to release the safety. The bridges,with jacks are very expensive. I just made some bridges out of wood.
When the four poster is empty it is fabulous for piling all your junk and lifting it out of site. Instant declutter.

I used bendpak and paid around 4G$ each.
So, get both

 

[Gransin]

I have an electro-mechanical Ravaglioli KPX337 LWR, and it's great for a garage with low ceiling height (posts are only 2640mm or 8'7") and you don't have to deal with fitting the overhead crossbar into the roof structure, you just cut the tube where it needs to be cut and install it so it sits right under the ceiling. It's a really smooth lift, but I don't know if you can easily get them in the states?

 

[adawil2002]

I have a 4-post lift which I’ve had since 2011when I bought Athena. Purchased through Gemini in Texas. Says it’s made in the USA. I have the bridge jack, sliding tool tray and 4 casters. Took two of us a day and half to assemble.

I am going to purchase another 4-post in the near future. They are relatively inexpensive and don’t know how I got along without one for so long.

The bridge jack works well, though for changing wheels or brake work sometimes the platforms get in the way.

Rad Lifts |

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radliftsbygemini.com

 

[Belgiumbarry]

hehe, the 4 post guys taking revenge
now , as stated, i also prefer a 4 post . Sure as a first install…. if i had the place , second lift would be a 2 post.