Parts Availability and Valuation

[Gloff]

Hey guys and gals,

My name is Sean. I've been a BMW enthusiast for a while, I hail from the E30 world primarily, with a 91 318i, and I also own an E85 2.5i.

I've had an E31 840i, and I love the pillarless coupe look, now I'm on the hunt to replace the E30 with the classic lines of an E9, I have always wanted one. Now that I may be in a position to acquire one, what are some of the rarer parts that would be difficult to replace? In the E30 world, nearly every nut and bolt can be replaced from BMW or the aftermarket, but I don't know what parts availability looks like for this chassis.

I'm looking at investigating a restoration project that needs some major things, I'm not looking for concourse level OEM replacements, just looking at making myself a driver that I can share with the world. Some key components that this car would need are brake components, dashboard, carpeting, glazing, trim, and headliner.

What kind of rough value would a running stripped 2800CS go for?

Looking forward to hearing from the community.

 

[30csl]

Hi Sean,

I also have an 840 as my daily driver! As for the parts that are hard to get - it is mainly small bits of trim but with the help of boards like this there is usually a source. For the CSL it gets trickier for their specific parts. The mechanics are very easy to get parts for as you can probably imagine. Sheetmetal is expensive but generally available and wallothnesch.com do a lot of repair panels. Of the bits you list above trim is the main expensive item that can add up fast. I always seem to find it hard to get good interior trim parts too but for a good driver most of these can be made up or restored by a good interior shop.

Regards,

Rohan

 

[WISE9UY]

Hi Sean and welcome.

I only entered this scene in May. While many things can be purchased new, I have found a couple limitations. As stated above, this forum is great for either obtaining parts OR getting leads on where to get them.

Cheers, Roland

 

[Markos]

Hey guys and gals,

My name is Sean. I've been a BMW enthusiast for a while, I hail from the E30 world primarily, with a 91 318i, and I also own an E85 2.5i.

I've had an E31 840i, and I love the pillarless coupe look, now I'm on the hunt to replace the E30 with the classic lines of an E9, I have always wanted one. Now that I may be in a position to acquire one, what are some of the rarer parts that would be difficult to replace? In the E30 world, nearly every nut and bolt can be replaced from BMW or the aftermarket, but I don't know what parts availability looks like for this chassis.

I'm looking at investigating a restoration project that needs some major things, I'm not looking for concourse level OEM replacements, just looking at making myself a driver that I can share with the world. Some key components that this car would need are brake components, dashboard, carpeting, glazing, trim, and headliner.

What kind of rough value would a running stripped 2800CS go for?

Looking forward to hearing from the community.

Hi Sean,

I'm also new to E9's. I will eventually start to restore my car but so far I've been learning about the car and dealing with a lot of parts. There are expert long-time owners and members in here that can hopefully iterate off this thread. My knowledge of E9's is mostly 'academic' - which is a fancy way of saying that I have extremely limited hands-on experience with them. I am fairly up-to-speed on the parts market due to my relentless hunt for e9 stuff.

One thing I should add is that the E30 vs E9 market is vastly different. Not to paint a broad brush but it's very apparent in the classifieds section, eBay, etc. The E30 is a starter BMW for tens of thousands of enthusiasts. The E9 seems to be one car in a legacy of BMW vehicles that owners' have acquired over the years. Owners know what they want/need and they are prepared to purchase items when they pop up. If you want e9 parts - be prepared to buy them. While E30 parts could be sitting in the classified section for a month, E9 parts sell in hours/days. I've only had a few parts take longer than 7 days to sell ever, and a handful of 'packages' that I had to break up to promote sales. Cars move slow on this site, I think mainly because most everyone has a car already.

Lastly - As a newbie I would say that everyone here is really welcoming and your restoration project won't come with many unanswered questions. It's really awesome...

What kind of rough value would a running stripped 2800CS go for?
This summer saw a lot of 'project' cars. Most were very rusty and most weren't driving. Restored rolling shells go from $8K - $10K from what I've seen. Rolling rusty projects go from $3K to $12K, more often than not $8K. I've only seen a few listed that actually ran and both were around $8K. Again these didn't have rust repairs done. These are all scenario and seller specific. Basically you are lucky if you can find an $8K car that is any better condition than a $5K car. You are really lucky if you can find a $3K car that runs. Overall, I would ignore the running engine part and look for the nicest body that you can find. It goes without saying that any of the rusty cars need serious body/structural work to be road worthy. My car falls in this camp and aI was appropriately warned before purchasing.

I am of the opinion that there are certain cars that have rust that can simply be ignored while you enjoy the car. I've come across several cars like this. I would respray the car, keep it in the garage, and drive it when dry. This definitely isn't the consensus although I think there are a lot of lurkers on this board that have such cars. Conversely, there are a number of beautiful cars that fall into the unsafe category due to absent structural components or hidden structural rust. Your best best is to scan the for sale section religiously to learn about some of the things to watch out for. I think the FS section is more telling than any other forum section in this regard.

Some key components that this car would need are brake components, dashboard, carpeting, glazing, trim, and headliner.

Brake Components:
Front brake parts seem to be a non-issue. There is some vented versus solid differences with the disks that can be addressed with caliper spacers that are available. The strut tubes with stub axles can be had for a fair price, and rebuilt brake hardware and new disks/pads/lines are available.

The 2800 CS had rear drums. To swap to disks you need to buy the rear trailing arms from a 3.0 CS/CSI/CSL along with the disk hardware. If you can find the parts, expect to pay anywhere from $600 to $2000 for all of the parts.

Dashboard:

There are no reproduction dash parts available at all AFAIK. There is a member here that does fantastic wood dash/door restorations for around $1,000 plus shipping to/from overseas. There is another company in California called Just Dashes that will recover your existing dashboard for around $1,000. I've only seen one full dashboard listed in the last year (Hawaii car), and it was around $1,200 and the wood needed refinishing. You can find the main wood dash part for around $200 - $300 every now and then.

Carpeting:

There are about 2-3 good carpeting options, and another 2 or so inexpensive eBay carpet kits. The first 2-3 look factory, and there are a number of threads on which is the most OEM-like and the best fit/finish. I've seen a few cars for sale with the Ebay carpet kit. They look okay in the pictures, but they are easy to spot as aftermarket if that is important to you. I don't believe that they are as plush as the more expensive carpets but that is hearsay.

Glazing:

You can order new glass from Germany. Many people get glass from W&N. Things like green tinting come up in discussion now and then. Also there has been speak of windshield fitment issues with new glass. Check W&N for pricing.

Trim:

Trim is a crap shoot. Some is available new (like belt line). Some is NLA. A lot of trim is made of aluminum, and some is chrome. There is a lot of used trim floating around so the biggest expense will be polishing/chroming if that is of interest to you. Also, some of the new trim has fitment issues. This seems to be a recurring trend for the latest OEM parts.

Headliner:

There are several companies that sell factory-like headliner material. Also, many members have enough left over to cover another headliner so buying remnants from a member is an option. Also, people use SEM vinyl paint to clean up vinyl bits like headliners / wheel well covers / and all the elephant skin in the trunk.

 

[jmackro]

I'm looking at investigating a restoration project that needs some major things, I'm not looking for concourse level OEM replacements, just looking at making myself a driver that I can share with the world. Some key components that this car would need are brake components, dashboard, carpeting, glazing, trim, and headliner. What kind of rough value would a running stripped 2800CS go for?

Without photos, information on the amount of rust, whether it is running, the specific parts that are missing, manual/automatic, .... it is impossible to quote a value. But you asked for a rough number - how about $0?

I just can't imagine why you would buy a stripped car as the starting point for a project. The first parts to sell were probably the most scarce/valuable - locating and replacing them won't be cheap. There are lots of e9's out there - it isn't difficult to find a complete car.

I know you are looking for a budget project, but I think that buying the nicest (complete) car you can afford will be the least expensive way to get into e9 ownership.

 

[Markos]

I presume that Sean is looking at this car. Sean - if you have a car in mind post it up. I would assert that there is no car listed on craigslist past or present that we haven't already discussed. Just about every private sale car is hunted down and posted on this forum for review. Often they are cross posted to the previous owner's sale, as a lot of these car change hands once or twice before the project completes.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5812437829.html

 

[jmackro]

If the car in Redding is the one Sean is looking at, then we know a little more, including the asking price ($8,500), that it runs, is a manual, and which parts are missing. While $8,500 would be a good price for a complete coupe, the cost of the bumpers, windshield, and whatever else has gone missing from the Redding car may shift the equation.

Not trying to badmouth someone's attempt to sell this car - the remaining parts are probably worth > $8,500. I'm just saying that if Sean's goal is to end up with a driveable coupe (I know, not concours) in this lifetime, this seems like the hard way to do it.

At a minimum, I'd recommend a PPI covering rust damage and mechanical condition before committing.

 

[Honolulu]

The last 2800 CS to sell from Hawaii brought the seller, whom I know slightly, about $8900. Shipping was to be another $1000. That car was complete and had a 3.5 bottom end with Weber 32/36s, four speed trans. Although I was disappointed that it didn't bring more, seller was very good about noting the presence of rust in various places. I can dig up more data about it, but to buy an incomplete car for the same money as a runner is bad business. I could probably did up more info, but the Search function might to that for you just as well.

Asking around here will be educational. Note that the most frequent posts here seem to be made by guys whose cars are really nice (IMHO), and they have gone a long ways into their accounts to make and keep them so. Your E31 experience may prepare you for the costs of coupe ownership, but not for restoration of the kind we seem to see here. Parts prices always seem high to me, but I'm among the more frugal guys you've never met.

As noted above we've seen a lot of coupes for sale, and ripped into some of them deeply (and politely) with gusto (but politely). This is a pretty mature forum in at least two ways: the level of advice, and the depth of information available via the search function which I expect you will burn up with use. Some of the "projects and restoration" threads show the horrible depths from which skilled metal workers can bring a car back from, but you don't want to join that group unless your touch with a torch is near magical.

Welcome, hope to hear more.

 

[Gloff]

Man this is like R3V on steroids, lots of great information here. Thank you for the awesome information! Finding information for the E31 was one of the many reasons I decided to sell the car at a loss (along with the lack of a manual, and sheer rarity of the electronic computers/components. The E31 I had was straight as an arrow but had some questionable ownership history and repairs (no documentation, used M60 from a 540i, weird electrical faults) I love the pillarless coupe look, but want something more mechanical than the E31, the E9 ticks all the right boxes and has such classic lines to boot!


@Markos : yes, this is indeed the car I'm looking at. Your market summary is EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for, thank you!

@jmackro and @Honolulu : Great information, exactly what I was looking for. Mechanical repairs are something I'm very familiar with I do all my own maintenance and repair on my E30. I had to drop the trans to replace the frozen throwout bearing a week after I bought it. Body work is voodoo as far as I'm concerned, so I'd be looking at farming that out for whatever it needs, as we all know, bodywork is prohibitively expensive, and that's my main concern with this car. This may sound like sacrilege, but I like the look without the bumper up front:

Rear bumper is another story, that would need be be found. The picture of the brown car is pretty close to the look I'd go with on the car, although I would like to keep the beltline chrome/stainless like the black car.

Thank you all for the great insight, I think I will pass on the Redding car, and continue my search for something more complete!

@30csl : You're a brave soul, I drove my E31 on Sundays, that car was insanely quick from 60-100mph. I would have been arrested if I kept it, I drove it in 4th most of the time, as the car was unhappy in 5th unless it was doing 85mph+

For those curious, here was my E31, excuse the tinted taillights and awful wheels, those were not my doing, and were going to be replaced if I kept her:

And my E30:

 

[Gransin]

I'm 3,5 years into my own project right now, started with a running car and most of the parts where there, but it had some rust issues.

The rust is a pain to fix on these cars, and there tend to be alot of it. But in my opinion the real problems starts when you are done with the rust and have a nice rustfree and freshly painted shell. Because what happens then? You start to dig out all the parts that you disassembled from the car when you started the project, and guess what, they don't look anywhere as nice anymore when you try to fit them to the fresh shell. So, for me the biggest expense has been to buy new/better used parts for the car. And it adds up FAST as there are so many small and expensive parts everywhere.

And I'm not trying to build a concours car either, just a solid driver.

My point is, the more complete the car is, the better. But, look at all the details/parts and ask yourself if you can live with that condition on all the details/parts after you're done with bodywork and paint.
If not, you'll have to dig deep into your pockets when buying every single part, one part at the time.

Cheers,

 

[viphoto]

The last 2800 CS to sell from Hawaii brought the seller, whom I know slightly, about $8900. Shipping was to be another $1000. That car was complete and had a 3.5 bottom end with Weber 32/36s, four speed trans. Although I was disappointed that it didn't bring more, seller was very good about noting the presence of rust in various places.

That would be the car I bought almost exactly 1 year ago and I did get a great deal... (I plan on doing a "One year later" post at some point soon..) I was looking for a driver and something that might need a little work but not a major project so this car fit the bill and my timing was right to score this great car (and luck was on my side as well). The seller of this car was fantastic and provided 50+ photos and full disclosure of any areas that needed attention....which helped me take the risk of buying a car on Ebay and so far away. Pretty much everything was there except for the tool kit. I did have to deal with a couple of small spots of floor rust, but overall the car was remarkably free of anything but some minor surface rust and a couple of spots on the doors. The trans was a 5 speed but a one piece non speedo type, which I have since changed to a 265 with speedo hookup. I even got an set of refinished dash wood and some new suspension bits and a Schrick 262 cam which I will install at some point...

All that being said there are some good deals out there if your willing to wait and do your research. Contrary to some opinions here there are some drivers out therefor under $10K. The car I bought from Hawaii was drive-able from day one and I have been able to enjoy it while fine tuning all the little things (and a few big ones) to get it to my idea of a Fun drive-able classic. .I would also add that too many times I have bought a "Project car" only to have it take far more $ and time to get it to a point I was happy with it and a number of times the length of the project led to burn out, and that project getting passed on to someone else for pennies on the dollar that I spent "over doing" it.. Good luck in your search.

 

[Gary Knox]

And, if you can bide your time as stated above, the better deals will probably come in December through March. Good luck in your search - it's fun as well as ultimately rewarding.

 

[Ohmess]

Hi Gloff -- I spend three years looking for my car; joined the BMWVCCA, attended numerous gatherings where e9 folks congregate, lurked and posted here regularly, etc. I ultimately found a very nice CA/TX car with very little rust that needed mechanical work and have spent the past two plus years restoring her.

I recommend finding a car that is already a driver, primarily because its easier to evaluate the condition of the car (and its constituent parts) when the car is in one piece. Then again, a major factor for me is that it would take me forever to reassemble a car that someone else disassembled. If Peter Coomaraswamy hasn't sold his spare coupe yet, you should at least check that one out.

 

[Roger S]

Hi Sean, good luck with your e9 adventure.

Markos, very thoughtful write up. I believe HB Chris started a thread on coupe values that many here on the board contributed. The 2002FAQ has (or had) a vendor list page that is also of use to e9 owners. Basically, it's a small group of vendors that seems to be shrinking as the costs, unfortunately, rise accordingly. If you want to buy any part for multiple times its true value, the best source is eBay.

Anyway, my purpose for writing is to document current costs around "dashboard" recovering versus availability new and wood sources. With regard to all of the wood in your car, as you stated, Bella does fine woodwork. I've used Madera Concepts for both of my builds. They can reveneer your cores or make a set from scratch. Wonderful resource and great final product. Tony, one of the owners passed recently. The other owner, Jeff, is still active and guides terrific work. I had a set sitting in the box for a decade. The main span for the dash twisted. Jeff took it back and redid it at no cost, without hesitation, and reminded me to NEVER allow newly veneered items to sit unmounted. I have commissioned many one off pieces not advertised on their website. They are very easy to work with and you will not have to wait a lifetime to get your product back. Figure to spend between $1,500-$2,000 for a complete set. Others who purchased recently can chime in. BMW commissions only scratches the surface of their body of work.

Dashboards and the lower sections, ie, steering column lower cover, fuse panel cover, and the glovebox, can only be recovered. I am also not aware of anything being available new. I've been on the BMW m10/e9 for 15 years and have done exhaustive research on everything related to the same since day one of my first build; to the point where I'm teased (thanks Chuck). Anyway, Just Dashes (JD) might be the only "large retail" vendor doing this work. I used them more than a decade ago for a complete set (inclusive of the gauge surround, dash, and the grab rail. I commissioned work from JD again (the three lower pieces) as recently as last month. Be prepared to wait 2-3 months for your parts. JD prices have only increased by a few hundred dollars over the last decade. The only other options are to use a competent upholsterer or to do it yourself. In hindsight, I should have used a upholsterer due to JDs turn around time and my own to attention to detail. JD had a known design fault in it's upper dash section. Each end of the dash has an extended piece of vinyl that fits into the trim on the "A" pillar. Mine were trimmed or "sealed" too close to the frame, which cause unnecessary hardship on the install. I was offered a 1o% off current pricing to correct their error as ten years had passed between purchase and install. Again, inspect all work from vendors, do test fits, and be prepared to do temporary installs so as not to lose parts or mess them up.

In fairness to JD, and as a resource to e9 owners, I am only listing their current price guideline here. Please note that depending upon core condition, you can pay more.

Just Dashes Fall 2016 (Baseline)
$1,500 3 piece dash (including grab rail)
$950 2 piece upper dash only
$650-$700 steering column cover, fuse box, and glovebox door
$300 2 piece center console surround (not heat sealed).

 

[Gary Knox]

For 'dash' type work that is recovering OE parts, there is a business in Dearborn MI that does a LOT of Porsche dashes, and is amenable to BMW parts work as well. The company also does leather upholstery work. They, like was noted for JD by Roger S, have a lot of business, so are not quick, but the owner - Robert Budd - will give you a pretty accurate estimate of completion date. I had my front and rear seats re-upholstered there, and they did a great job. Most of their work is for Porsche products that are 20-50 years old. I met Rob through the P 928 club about 10 years ago, and consider him a friend. His upholsterer has a Masters degree in design!!

Our dashes are VERY SIMPLE to refurbish compared to those in a Porsche 928! Their web site is: www.classic9leathershop.com

Again, Rob is a friend of mine, but I have no personal association with his business other than a satisfied customer (both on the seats and on the e9 hood pad he produces and sells). IF anyone decides to contact him, feel free to let him know I recommended him as a possible source for service.