I was going to add power steering fluid in my E24 when I noticed a decal warning to use ATF only. I am now concerned if my E9 also uses ATF and not power steering fluid, I hope not as I have been using power steering fluid all these years.
Power Steering Fluid or ATF????
- Thread starter verde2002
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It should be ATF I recall, but check with the experts.
http://www.e9coupe.com/tech/handbook/p_107.htm
Have you been just been adding or did you ever flush the system?
http://www.e9coupe.com/tech/handbook/p_107.htm
Have you been just been adding or did you ever flush the system?
I have been adding but my power steering has a small leak so I add fluid every so often.
Is there a way to drain the whole system and add ATF? I asume no bleeding like brakes required?
OK, so you have a bit of the wrong fluid but not all of it.
Arde I have been adding power steering fluid for the last couple of years due to the leak. I think I have a lot of the wrong fluid. I wonder if that is what caused the leak to begin with. Is there a way to drain the oil?
Our experts are on leave so you will have to settle for my intuition.
PS fluid and ATF are not soluble in each other, so who knows what proportion you have and what properties the mix has. You can get along with your wife and with your girlfriend, but they do not mix well. To flush the system at home you can siphon out the fluid and put new ATF in, repeat a number of times until the old stuff is really diluted. I have done that with a syringe on my E24, but it is very important not to re-use the syringe for food or medicine. My wife uses a a syringe for decorating cakes. People stopped coming to our parties after I re-used it.
Maybe find the leak first. I hear there is a trace fluid that will show where the leak is, I envision neon colored ATF and the leak will show a neon color streak. Ask a friend at the airport to run the car by the TSA machines that show you naked, the leak will probably show right away. Make sure you are not in the car. Stan would eventually upload to the registry the picture of a naked guy in a coupe at the airport and will rat you by the VIN number.
Do not operate the pump until you refill with fluid. You can bleed the system to remove air bubbles. Turn the steering wheel a few times and top off after air bubbles come out.
Caveat Emptor. This is advise from a person that never did this, and on a foul mood day. I should flush my spleen and put ATF, maybe I would be a nicer person then.
PS fluid and ATF are not soluble in each other, so who knows what proportion you have and what properties the mix has. You can get along with your wife and with your girlfriend, but they do not mix well. To flush the system at home you can siphon out the fluid and put new ATF in, repeat a number of times until the old stuff is really diluted. I have done that with a syringe on my E24, but it is very important not to re-use the syringe for food or medicine. My wife uses a a syringe for decorating cakes. People stopped coming to our parties after I re-used it.
Maybe find the leak first. I hear there is a trace fluid that will show where the leak is, I envision neon colored ATF and the leak will show a neon color streak. Ask a friend at the airport to run the car by the TSA machines that show you naked, the leak will probably show right away. Make sure you are not in the car. Stan would eventually upload to the registry the picture of a naked guy in a coupe at the airport and will rat you by the VIN number.
Do not operate the pump until you refill with fluid. You can bleed the system to remove air bubbles. Turn the steering wheel a few times and top off after air bubbles come out.
Caveat Emptor. This is advise from a person that never did this, and on a foul mood day. I should flush my spleen and put ATF, maybe I would be a nicer person then.
Last edited:
Mixing ATF and PSF
I did this once and could only make left hand turns. Depending on which fluid was in first, dictates which direction you can turn. Can't recall which I added on top.
I did this once and could only make left hand turns. Depending on which fluid was in first, dictates which direction you can turn. Can't recall which I added on top.
MMercury
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I am not aware of an approved method of draining and replacing the fluid in the power steering assembly. When confronted with a similar situation (suspected contaminated fluid), I have removed hose couplings at the pump(the lowest point). Suppose you could invert the reservoir with the engine out or if space were to permit it, but I have never thought about it before now, let alone tried it. Syphoning fluid from the reservoir is better than nothing, but can yield mixed results. Much the same as changing auto transmission fluid by draining the pan - but without touching the fluid in the torque converter. This can require repeating the process.
The fact that you have a leak somewhere in the power steering system may not have anything to do with the fluid you are using. 40+ year old systems have a tendency to leak by virtue of age alone. Ever heard floor pans referred to as auto diapers?
When E9's were new, with few exceptions, power steering fluid was considered ATF and vice versa. (Dextron had the most recommendations - - then there was Ford F Type.) Unless you have been refilling from something that is specifically designated for use in power steering systems such as Honda's, you may be fine. And even then, your concerns may not be that great since you don't seem to have any obvious steering problems, excepting a leak . In some of the newer cars (e.g., Honda), power steering fluid may be similar to ATF, but the differences are enough to avoid cross contamination. My limited understanding is that the ATF is laden with detergents that may not be compatible with Honda's power steering seals. ATF may also have a wider viscosity index and thus different thermal properties than a straight weight Honda Power Steering fluid. Honda's fluid may also contain a different brew of friction modifiers than found in the most current off-the-shelf Dextron ATF. I wouldn't be surprised if there were synthetic ATFs or PSFs offered by brands such as Redline that were compatible with all systems, but warranty issues are enough to deter advertising such properties.
The systems used in the E9 are fairly forgiving. I am not advocating using anything other than recommended fluid, but I know of someone who unwittingly kept topping up his E3's power steering reservoir with Marvel Mystery Oil for months. The system did not seem the worse for wear when he finally replaced the hose that was the source of the leak. As often said, your mileage may vary.
If you decide to flush or drain the system, consider cleaning or replacing the filter found in the reservoir.
Best of luck.
http://www.e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/en/32.html
The fact that you have a leak somewhere in the power steering system may not have anything to do with the fluid you are using. 40+ year old systems have a tendency to leak by virtue of age alone. Ever heard floor pans referred to as auto diapers?
When E9's were new, with few exceptions, power steering fluid was considered ATF and vice versa. (Dextron had the most recommendations - - then there was Ford F Type.) Unless you have been refilling from something that is specifically designated for use in power steering systems such as Honda's, you may be fine. And even then, your concerns may not be that great since you don't seem to have any obvious steering problems, excepting a leak . In some of the newer cars (e.g., Honda), power steering fluid may be similar to ATF, but the differences are enough to avoid cross contamination. My limited understanding is that the ATF is laden with detergents that may not be compatible with Honda's power steering seals. ATF may also have a wider viscosity index and thus different thermal properties than a straight weight Honda Power Steering fluid. Honda's fluid may also contain a different brew of friction modifiers than found in the most current off-the-shelf Dextron ATF. I wouldn't be surprised if there were synthetic ATFs or PSFs offered by brands such as Redline that were compatible with all systems, but warranty issues are enough to deter advertising such properties.
The systems used in the E9 are fairly forgiving. I am not advocating using anything other than recommended fluid, but I know of someone who unwittingly kept topping up his E3's power steering reservoir with Marvel Mystery Oil for months. The system did not seem the worse for wear when he finally replaced the hose that was the source of the leak. As often said, your mileage may vary.
If you decide to flush or drain the system, consider cleaning or replacing the filter found in the reservoir.
Best of luck.
http://www.e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/en/32.html
MMercury, thhak you for the information and links. I definitly plan on removing the pwer steering fluid one way or another.
i did it some time ago:
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10935
i hear about mixing fluids, and i remember someone told us about damages if the wrong one is used, destroying the seals and so on
in my experience a perfect flush of the old fluid was difficult, because there were remains on the hoses and on the steering box and on the pump
my advise is, as arde said, warm the fluid(drive), flush, refill + bleed, run some km to warm it up, flush again, change the inner filter + bleed
then clean everything to check for leaks
good luck !
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10935
i hear about mixing fluids, and i remember someone told us about damages if the wrong one is used, destroying the seals and so on
in my experience a perfect flush of the old fluid was difficult, because there were remains on the hoses and on the steering box and on the pump
my advise is, as arde said, warm the fluid(drive), flush, refill + bleed, run some km to warm it up, flush again, change the inner filter + bleed
then clean everything to check for leaks
good luck !