PS box tighter than a manual box!?!

[pmansson]

I have 2 cars with sensationally tight PS boxes. Almost like driving a well sorted E-type with their rack and pinion steering, as well as all modern cars of course.
I also have a CSL and two "CSL" cars (with manual steering boxes among other differences) which are equally tight, but on a third "CSL" car with a manual box the steering feels sloppy. I.e. too much play, or not the immediate reaction on the front wheels when the steering wheel is turned.
As a matter of fact the 2 cars with fantastic PS boxes, run on 14" stock wheels with XWX tyres, and the others on 16" wheels with their more modern low profile tyres.

I know that the manual CSL boxes must not be tightened too much using that top end screw. The boxes have been out for overhauls incl new seals.
It is not a question of sloppiness due to play in the tie rods with their delicate ends (which suffer more/last shorter with wider low profile tyres.

Has anyone made similar observations?
My conclusion is that the manual steering boxes are not tighter per definition, than the PS boxes, which I thought was the case.

 

[Honolulu]

mmm. I had a '69 2500 sedan with manual steering when the wife had a '73 Bav with PS. After the 2500 got new tires it was much easier to steer, so there may be something there.

I don't think the steering boxes on either were much "tighter" though of course the manual steering required the "bus" steering wheel when parking.

Stiffness can also originate from the little u-joint in the steering column, just upstream from the steering box, but when the joint on my CS got tight, it was at one spot in the rotation. I took out the joint, boiled it in some ATF and all is well since.

There may also be a question of what ratio is in the box. Quick steering = larger effort.

Also, are your steering joints (center track rod, tie rod ends, ball joint) inducing stiffness? You'd have to raise the car to test, maybe with some disconnection(s) to isolate various joints.

And (this is going pretty far) possibly there is binding in the steering shaft inside the column itself.

 

[pmansson]

153 box vs the 108

Hi Honolulu,
you mention what I and my mechanic decided on yesterday: the difference in ratio between the manual E3 box ending in 153, and the CSL box ending in 108, is the clue to my observation. When I say tight, I mean gokart like, and not difficult in any sense other than extra effort at very low speed.
I will now change the 153 for a 108 which I have rebuilt on the shelf. I have this box in 2 other cars plus the CSLs of course.
All other moving parts in the front end are brand new as are all silenblocs/bushings. (this goes without saying when it comes to my cars. Sorry to brag a little).
Thanks for your input.
Peder