I'm wondering if I should switch or convert from the original R12 Freon in my current AC. Someone told me it was just a matter of switching out the fittings. Is this true? or should get the current recharged. I'm assuming the systems is empty since my car has been sitting for such a long time.
R12 Freon Conversion
- Thread starter kys911t
- Start date
I say recharge r-12, it's more efficient than 134a and these cars need every bit of chill possible. If you go to 134a you'll need at minimum a new compressor if you have an original York, if you have a new compressor you'll need to switch the oil out, add new hoses because they will leak the 134a, and new charge fittings. To compensate for the loss of efficiency with 134a you'll want a parallel condensor to replace the original. I replaced everything and stayed r-12 and it is frosty cold and will keep the cabin cool in a New Orleans summer. Do a leak test first by vacuuming the system to see if it will hold the charge.
Steve,
what did the parallel condensor cost + where did you get it? what size did you buy?
as far as r12 freon goes - if you are looking for some check your local craigslist - i just saw 5 cans for $10 each
what did the parallel condensor cost + where did you get it? what size did you buy?
as far as r12 freon goes - if you are looking for some check your local craigslist - i just saw 5 cans for $10 each
Craigslist for sure for R-12
Condensor:
http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/16-x-18-superflow-r-134a-condenser-338.php
For more info:
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9633&highlight=compressor+upgrade
Condensor:
http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/16-x-18-superflow-r-134a-condenser-338.php
For more info:
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9633&highlight=compressor+upgrade
thehackmechanic
Well-Known Member
Stick with Freon
If your car has been sitting without the a/c working for a long time, you first need to ascertain the status of the system. A/c systems do not naturally leak, so if it has no freon in it, it is leaking, and the leak will have to be detected and fixed regardless of whether you stay with freon or switch to R134a.
If the system has been sitting but closed (ie, the compressor is still there and all the hoses are intact), you may be able to get away with finding and repairing the leak, replacing the receiver/dryer (always necessary when opening up the system), and recharging it. If you're lucky, the leak is trivial, such as in a hose or at a fitting. More likely it's at the compressor seal or in the condenser in front of the radiator. If you're unlucky, it's inside the evaporator console, which means the console needs to come out, which is big league suckage.
If the system has been sitting open (ie, compressor missing and hoses disconnected), you must first flush the system (the hoses, evaporator, and condenser) with a/c flush or mineral spirits to remove contaminants.
Once you have a leak-free system, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you address the issue of changing to R134a. When R134a conversions first started, the conventional wisdom was that the compressor to be changed because the two systems used incompatible oils (mineral oil for freon, PAG oil for R134). However, over time, a less invasive technique involving simply draining the oil oil from the compressor and using Ester oil which is compatible with both refrigerants.
All that having been said, Freon is still widely available. If you live in SoCal, I'm sure there are shops that work with it (unlike here in Boston where, since it isn't that hot, there are very few specialty a/c shops).
Long story short, if you have a basically intact system and you want a cold car, stick with Freon. The concern over the price per can isn't worth going through the conversion.
If you are doing a from-scratch installation or resurrecting an open system and may need to change several components, then R134a may be worth looking at.
I did a from-scratch installation in my CSi about 15 years ago and went with R134a. It works ok, but again it doesn't get stinking hot here in Boston. When I drive the car in 95 degree weather, it gets overwhelmed and I wish I'd stayed with Freon.
--Rob
If your car has been sitting without the a/c working for a long time, you first need to ascertain the status of the system. A/c systems do not naturally leak, so if it has no freon in it, it is leaking, and the leak will have to be detected and fixed regardless of whether you stay with freon or switch to R134a.
If the system has been sitting but closed (ie, the compressor is still there and all the hoses are intact), you may be able to get away with finding and repairing the leak, replacing the receiver/dryer (always necessary when opening up the system), and recharging it. If you're lucky, the leak is trivial, such as in a hose or at a fitting. More likely it's at the compressor seal or in the condenser in front of the radiator. If you're unlucky, it's inside the evaporator console, which means the console needs to come out, which is big league suckage.
If the system has been sitting open (ie, compressor missing and hoses disconnected), you must first flush the system (the hoses, evaporator, and condenser) with a/c flush or mineral spirits to remove contaminants.
Once you have a leak-free system, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you address the issue of changing to R134a. When R134a conversions first started, the conventional wisdom was that the compressor to be changed because the two systems used incompatible oils (mineral oil for freon, PAG oil for R134). However, over time, a less invasive technique involving simply draining the oil oil from the compressor and using Ester oil which is compatible with both refrigerants.
All that having been said, Freon is still widely available. If you live in SoCal, I'm sure there are shops that work with it (unlike here in Boston where, since it isn't that hot, there are very few specialty a/c shops).
Long story short, if you have a basically intact system and you want a cold car, stick with Freon. The concern over the price per can isn't worth going through the conversion.
If you are doing a from-scratch installation or resurrecting an open system and may need to change several components, then R134a may be worth looking at.
I did a from-scratch installation in my CSi about 15 years ago and went with R134a. It works ok, but again it doesn't get stinking hot here in Boston. When I drive the car in 95 degree weather, it gets overwhelmed and I wish I'd stayed with Freon.
--Rob
Honolulu
Well-Known Member
And it's my understanding that a lot of what is sold as "Freon" is not actually that. There is a long discussion somewhere about using butane, and there are cogent arguments for and against it. How one verfies what is in the can, I can't help you.
I have no position myself, having removed the compressor, condenser, evaporator, lines etc some time ago. You want cool? Open the electric windows. Drive faster. Get a Toyota (this last did not work well for me, my bad it was an '88 Corolla).
I have no position myself, having removed the compressor, condenser, evaporator, lines etc some time ago. You want cool? Open the electric windows. Drive faster. Get a Toyota (this last did not work well for me, my bad it was an '88 Corolla).