rear window motor removal - left side '74

[Gary Knox]

rear window motor removal - left side '74 (DONE and easy - YIPPEEEEE)

My '74 left rear window motor has stopped operating. These motors are significantly different than the earlier model '2 piece' motor/transmissions, as they have the components combined.

Is there ANY WAY to remove that motor for repair or replacement without removing the entire window regulator (and probably window as well). The window is in the full down position.

I have 2 R and 2 L e28 rear window motors, so probably would prefer to replace this one with one of those - IF THAT IS POSSIBLE.

Via the search, I found one thread that removed the regulator from a car with the late type OE motor and replaced it with the e28, so it looks possible.

Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Cheers,

PS: See my post on page 2 for procedure used - much easier and more productive than I expected.

 

[HB Chris]

I've never done a rear window motor and hope I never have to but I think the whole assembly needs to come out.

 

[Honolulu]

time I did it on an earlier car with separable motor and transmission, I pulled out the whole window regulator. While it may be possible to take out only the motor, it wasn't easy as you have to get the regulator in just the right position to unbolt the motor/transmission.

You may have to wind the window with your finger to get adequate access. That being a bit of hassle, one would try to assess why the motor isn't turning, in hopes of a simpler solution (no power to the motor?). Window motors can bind in full-up or full-down, and sometimes it only takes moving the glass by 1/4 inch to free things up. Hopefully this turns out to be your situation.

Good luck Gary.

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

Well, I've done a few of these, 69, 70 & 74 and it's kind of an operation but there are things you can do to make it easier, of course remove the seat and armrest, trim etc. The outside trim will also have to come off to get the window out. Make yourself comfortable- if possible and I think all the mounting bolts are 10mm and philips. If your windows are lined up well now then use a scribe to mark the position of everything you take off because... well, you know. I like to remove the glass first then start in on the internals and of course you can grease everything up while you are in there (or when it's out of the car). Be sure to triple check the operation of the windows before putting everything back on and then have a nice cold beer. With the new motor you will probably see a speed increase which will make it absolutely necessary to do the other side. The most important alignment is the lower brace which attaches to the regulator and the body, be sure to mark both places or better yet leave the L shaped brace attached to the regulator if you can. Alignment can take more time than the removal of the motor :-( Good luck!

 

[phead82]

I've never done a rear window motor and hope I never have to but I think the whole assembly needs to come out.

I've done it a few times on my '74 already and I'm unaware of any other procedure other than taking the whole assembly out.
While it might seem like a hassle at the start, it's actually not that hard once you've done it and gotten the hang of it. Last time I did it (window wouldn't close properly since one of the mounting threads of the big bracket had twisted loose) I believe it took me less than 30 minutes in and out, minus all the trim/seat pieces that have to come off beforehand of course.
I'd never try and simply take the motor off on mine, since the whole mechanism is heavily springloaded. And believe me, with heavily I mean heavily; I almost cut one of my fingers off when unbolting the motor with the assembly out! It was a stupid mistake that could've been avoided had I known about it being under such heavy load.
So beware - a seemingly simpler operation (just motor out) can turn out to be much harder than the one assumed to be harder (assembly out).

 

[MyFemurHurts]

I've only done rear windows on my '70, but I took the whole assembly out. At least on my case to get the sardine cans loose and lube everything I had to have access to both sides.

 

[adawil2002]

I've had both rear window cassettes out of my '73. I can't imagine a huge design change in window cassettes over the years aside from motors.

Be sure to keep track of the 10mm bolts because they are different lengths and need to go back in the same places they were. The long bolts in the short hole will interfere with the window operation. I have removed my driver side mechanism at least 6 times to replace the winding transmissions, which kept stripping.

 

[deQuincey]

hi gary,

find yourself the photos of the process here

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11320&highlight=rear+panels


as far as i can tell from my own pictures i think that removing the sardine can motors without taking the whole assembly out is doable, but removing the regulator is not possible

moreover i think it is impossible to install the new one unit motor assembly if the mechanism frame is not out of the car

regards

jesus

 

[Stevehose]

+1 after doing this for each window and the rears twice and completing the learning curve, it goes from a frustrating, curse-inducing process down to a high level PITA

In order to get the assembly in and out of the body the window must be down all the way. Once out I hook a battery to the motor and "open" the window - be careful of having a space suitable to cushion/support everything as it opens. Like mentioned before, the spring tension is scary. Once opened up removing gears and cleaning tracks etc. is easy.

While it might seem like a hassle at the start, it's actually not that hard once you've done it and gotten the hang of it.

 

[Gary Knox]

THANK YOU SO MUCH guys. I was afraid your answers would be 'NO WAY, just TAKE IT OUT', so that's what I'll do. I already had the entire rear components out, as I'm getting some re-upholstery to the seats, and changing the colors of the center arm rest and the side panels. I just need to take off the wood/leather upholstery component to proceed.

THANKS AGAIN - as the old saying goes: "You Guys Rock".

Cheers

 

[lloyd]

My '74 left rear window motor has stopped operating. These motors are significantly different than the earlier model '2 piece' motor/transmissions, as they have the components combined.

Is there ANY WAY to remove that motor for repair or replacement without removing the entire window regulator (and probably window as well). The window is in the full down position.

Yes, but it is not recommended.

A slightly different approach to the problem involves the diagnosis. Can you move the window by manually turning the plastic gear accessible from the side panel? Yes, there is "the" comb tool designed for this. I have encountered windows where a rubber bump stop has fused to its backstop, locking the entire mechanism (up or down). Brute finger-force beyond "the" tool's capacity makes everything work again, but replacing the rubber bits (or switching to a DQ-approved diet) is probably a longer-lasting cure.

At the risk of sounding pretentious, if you can manually move the window, are you sure the fault does not lie with the switches or wiring?


DQ's picture has it all.

 

[HB Chris]

There are no visible gears with the later motors and no comb.

 

[Gary Knox]

Lloyd,

Thanks for the suggestion, but as Chris said above, doesn't work with the later model (part of '73 and '74) motors.

I've checked the voltage at the connections, and without the engine running, I have 12.4 volts when either switch is enacted to move the window up or down. There is no 'ugh' from the motor or movement of the helix on the shaft, so something is wrong internally with it.

 

[MyFemurHurts]

It's easy to get the interior out.



The regulator is a pain though, and awkward.





But man, when you can roll them all down, it's so worth it.



Good luck to you sir.

 

[lloyd]

There are no visible gears with the later motors and no comb.

Since I am obviously "old" school, for my edification, in the newest models, is there no means of manually rolling the windows up or down - when, for example, the battery is dead?

Something else that may seem trivial, but does anyone have a publication date for "this" forum's owners manual? I ask because most of the information contained therein seems geared to the earlier models, including injection; however, the cover script and reference to "3 3 csi" suggests "modern." IIRC, my manual is similar to the red covered example.

Come to think of it, can't say I am familiar with the "3.3" Liter model. :roll: Calling Max Hoffman!

From the manual:

Gratuitous Turkis

And a gratuitous under-the-hood shot.

 

[HB Chris]

In Feb/Mar of 73 coupes got circuit breakers under the dash and the later style motor, just like e28. This is when the plastic plugs on the door panels disappeared as well, so no, you can't lower them manually.

The back of the Manual has a date, most likely 74 as in IV 74 for April. The early owners manuals cover up through 72 and the next manual was the 74 so their isn't one that covers the mid-year 73 changes, same for wiring diagrams in the blue books. Makes it tough sometimes to figure things out.

p.s. The red coupe above has the spark plug tube hanging below the valve cover, it should sit above the valve cover.

 

[lloyd]

p.s. The red coupe above has the spark plug tube hanging below the valve cover, it should sit above the valve cover.

Maybe someone thought that was a means of insuring a hotter spark?

Thanks for the other info.

 

[Gary Knox]

I want to wrap this up, and give some GOOD NEWS for anyone with the later '73 model, or the '74/75 model e9's.

I had been dreading this job, as I envisioned that I would need to do it from inside the car. Being 14 months short of my 80th birthday, I'm not as flexible as I was when the car was new! BUT - with the window in the lowered position, I could do everything from outside, leaning into the car. That made it MUCH easier than I had anticipated.

The e28 rear door window motors are an EXACT fit for replacing the motors in the later e9's (above) which have the one piece 'intermediate years' electric window motors. The job was much easier than I expected. Being slow and careful, it probably took me 30 minutes to remove the window mechanism and window. Since my motor wasn't operating, I could not 'raise' the window as the blue shop manuals indicate you should before removing the entire system. It still came out OK.

Then, laying the mechanism on a pillow on the bench, I found that with the window side up, the window itself could be lifted away from the regulator etc. system enough to get access to the bolts that hold the old motor to the regulator mechanism. Using 10mm ratcheting boxed wrench, the old bolts came out easily. The 'newer' e28 motor replaced it perfectly, again lifting the window away from the mechanical parts to install and tighten the bolts.

I could then move the window 'up and down' electrically while the mechanism was on the pillow (I have a small 12V battery such as used in emergency lights etc. that I use for such power). This allowed ease of cleaning all the old grease out of the guide channels and installing new SuperLube grease. I could 'raise and lower' the window for full access to the channels. Once I got all the old grease removed everywhere and new grease installed, the window is incredible!!

When I bought the car last May, the the time required to move any window up or down ranged from 17 to 20 seconds. After trying to clean the tracks with the original motor in place, etc. on the right side, it now goes up and down in about 11 seconds. The left side with the e28 replacement motor and cleaned/re-lubed tracks now moves from one end to the other in 3.5 seconds (when lying on the pillow)!! I now know why my sunroof opens and closes so quickly. It has the e28 motor in it!

I'm very happy. I'm now going to remove the right side rear window and do the same maintenance on it. I'll also now do the 2 front windows as well, even though I have their transit time down to about 10 seconds (I had all four e28 motors in stock, hoping I'd be able to get them done this winter).

My big THANKS again to everyone who gave me tips. Using your suggestions and the procedure from the blue shop manuals allowed me to do everything in less than 2 hours (remember all the upholstered 'stuff' was already removed).
-----------------------------------------
PS: OK, both windows are now installed with the e28 motors, old grease removed, and SuperLube applied. The up/down timing is now 4-5 seconds for the left window and 5-6 seconds for the right window.

Interestingly, the e28 motor installed in the right side took about 1 second longer to turn 10 revolutions when it was unattached to anything and I bench tested it (5 seconds for 10 rpm for the left and 6-7 seconds for the one that went into the right window).

Also: A SUGGESTION to anyone who is doing this. I recommend removing the chrome strip with the seal for the front door window that is on the front of the rear windows before removing and installing these windows (pulls off with firm 'tugging towards the front of the car). My reason for this is i slightly damaged one of these items on the left window when re-installing. I was going to install new rubber seal, so was able to get a new chrome piece as well (warning, the chrome piece for the right side window is NOT CURRENTLY available from Bay Em Vay).

 

[Bmachine]

About to embark on that very journey. Thank you for this excellent info Gary. And thank you all for the tips here included.