removing rear windshield

thehackmechanic

thehackmechanic

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When I drove the 3.0CSi to V@V, the air conditioner struggled to keep up with 95 degree temperatures. Someone at the event asked me if I had looked into the new generation of clear UV and heat-blocking tints. When I got back to Boston, I did a lot of reading, then took the car to a reputable tint shop. The guy said that the rear windshield would be total hell to tint due to its curvature. He said that the nearly clear stuff I'd heard about (Huper Optik and V-Kook) were only available in a building film, not in a shrinkable film for curved automotive applications, and recommended a ceramic shrinkable tint called Geoshield.

The installer successfully installed the tint, but on the rear windshield there's a gap between the edge of the tint and the rubber windshield seal. He showed me the glass on a modern car which has a black border built into it that hides the edge of the tint; older cars have no such border. To make the gap less visible he used what he referred to as pinstriping, but basically it's black tape. I like the tint, but hate the way the black tape looks. He says the only way to cover the entire rear windshield and not leave a gap is to remove the windshield from the car, tint it to the edge, then reinstall it. I've posted the story to a professional tinting web site (tintdude), and everything the installer says appears to be true.

So here's my question: The rear windshield, rubber, and chrome strips were new when the outer body restoration was done in 1988. The car has seen comparatively few miles. The rubber is still very pliant.

How hard is it -- what are the risks -- to pull the chrome strips out and pull the glass out, and then to put it all back?

Will the chrome strips bend up and never lie flat again?

Is the windshield rubber reusable?

Can I remove and install the windshield myself?

I've done this myself in 2002s, but there a windshield center strip is plastic and cheap. Realoem lists the chrome strips for the E9 as $380 apiece -- not the kind of thing I want to be wrong about.

--Rob
 
removing is easier than installing

Only two weeks ago I had a new front windshield and back window installed by a professional. New rubber for both was also used. My recommendation is to have a professional do it but if you are hell bent on doing it yourself, here is my experience:
I removed both windows myself. The front windshield was already cracked before so I wasn't concerned. First I carefully removed the trim. It is not difficult as long as you do it slowly and carefully. Just remember, once you start removing the trim there is no turning back. If you try to push the trim back in with the windshield in place you run the risk of cracking the windshield. I speak from experience as it happened to my other coupe 15 years ago. Once the trim is removed. You need to push the windows from the TOP center and from inside. As you push it with a LITTLE pressure you need to pull the rubber "lip" downwards from roof lining and towards the front.

As per the installer, the rear window is stronger than the windshield as it is more like tempered glass whereas the windshield is designed to shatter on impact. So I would start with the rear window which is what I had done. I replaced the rubber for both as the old ones were dry and cracked. Whether you need to is up to you. If it is still pliant and crack/tear free then maybe not. On the other hand it is 22 years old and may not last another 22 years whereas new ones will. Cost is $200. + for both.
If you have never installed rear and front windshield I would again recommend that you hire a professional. Both front and rear glass need to be installed with the rubber AND the trim on the glass ( as one unit) and you need to know how to use the "rope method. The front was a little more difficult than the rear. In my opinion this is not the time to learn on the job.
 
Andre,
Good info! The importance of the rubber/and bead on the window...Great to reference the "rope" method. It really is the way to go for a lot of window seals. In some cases you can use some handy clamps to help pull the inside seal towards the center of the window away from the frame such that the seal lip slips out with the softly applied pressure.

On install for some seals bead/trim strip (like on my P 928) you put rubber on glass, then rope method, then use small speaker wire in the Trim/bead track and lay trim adjacent to the wire...pull the wire out as you push the trim in...Some trim/beads only go in that way.
Jon
 
thehackmechanic said:
How hard is it -- what are the risks -- to pull the chrome strips out and pull the glass out, and then to put it all back?
Click to expand...

If I interpret your question literally, the answers is: "the risks are huge". Dunno if you know this, but the aluminum trim should NOT come out first. See my reply to your next question.

Will the chrome strips bend up and never lie flat again?
Click to expand...

As long as you remove the glass, rubber, and aluminum strips as an assembly, the aluminum won't get bent. Try to remove it first, and yea, you'll destroy it. When you do the re-install, the glass, rubber, and aluminum get assembled before putting all three parts into the body as a unit. The sequence is to wrap the seal around the glass, then press the two aluminum strips into the groove in the rubber, and finally fit the whole thing into the car.

Is the windshield rubber reusable?
Click to expand...

Oh yea, no problems there

Can I remove and install the windshield myself?
Click to expand...

I can't answer that one. Do you feel lucky?

At a minimum it helps to have a second person - pretty hard to lift the glass/seal/aluminum out just working from one side.
 
If your gasket is in good shape, and if you are patient, and if you use the string method to re-install (see Bimmer Mag. article on 2002 screens from a couple of years back) then removing the rear windshield is not that difficult. I've done it twice, myself. I removed the chrome strips before I removed the glass (the strips won't bend if you're patient and careful), and re-installed the strips before re-installing the glass. Worked well both times. The key to doing it right is to carefully push the gasket out between the perimeter of the flange and the glass and keeping the gasket from slipping back with clamps, screwdrivers, etc. while working from the top center, alternating from side to side an inch or two at a time. Takes time and patience. But it can be done. And when done, relax, and have a beer.
 
Windshield, Trim, Etc.

Yes, removal by assembly.
Two person job
Trim install in gasket before installation.
( Find smooth jawed pliers and place tubing over them so you don't marr the trim. Silicone spray helps too. But your paint should be done or the painter's gonna be mad.)
Rope method- actually blind cord, waxed up with Beeswax ( lots; so you don't cut the gasket. If it starts to bind go slow till you get past that point.
 
My car has been at a very respectable glass shop for almost 2 months now as they seem to be having difficulties getting the trim strip into the 25 year old NOS gasket.Glad I didn't attempt it myself!
 
Have you seen the Blue Book 51 31 000 Front windshield removing and installing? It does cover the "rope method" but it's a cord or wire, 3mm dia. that is recommended.

Removal is performed by foot - both feet. The photos are great.

Charlie
 
Buying some cheap, large diameter windown suction grips from Harbor Freight will greatly aid in pulling the window out AND pulling it back in. Better than gripping the edges alone.

Before going through all this, verify that your AC isn't sucking in fresh air that counteracts your conditioned recirculated air. Blocking the fresh air intake with a towel under the hood may be the quickest test. Assuming that your 134 charge level is correct, also verify that the condensor fins are straight. Ensuring that the AC auxiliary fan is running all the time might be a cheaper / easier / less destructive way to improve AC performance.
 
A/C not up to task @ 95 F

Adding to just above--

I'm assuming you had outside air lever to the off position and were only re-circulating cabin air in order to maximize cooling while underway. For those unfamiliar to our Coupes early A/C--this action will give at least another 10 degrees of cooling effect rather than attempting to cool the incoming--likely moisture laden outside air--believe that is typical of the 95 degree humid conditions you were experiencing in travel from MA to NC.

Once upon a time I had also considered tinting but after long consideration--and the experience of removing it from another coupe I was prepping for a new home--decided it was not a good solution. A better choice might be to assure your A/C system is operating at max efficiency and to consider some form of screening the rear window when traveling if necessary.

My speak is based on the experience of driving a dark blue Coupe--with black leather interior--in desert heat of SoCal, Arizona, Texas, Missouri, etc. etc so do understand the heat issues well.
 
PaulinPa said:
My car has been at a very respectable glass shop for almost 2 months now as they seem to be having difficulties getting the trim strip into the 25 year old NOS gasket.
Click to expand...

Into a gasket that is installed in the car with the glass? Or, into a gasket that is just wrapped around the glass, but not in the body.

If the former, read the post I submitted to this thread yesterday at 3:42pm. No matter how respectable these guys might be, if they're trying to do it that way, they don't know much about vintage European cars.
 
Further to a/c not up to task

A simple check- thermometer in the vent. If well, should be reading 38-42 degrees F.

Secondary ways of air infiltration-

a.Door panels without vapor barrier or window motor plugs.( I was amazed when a blue Texas norther came in and felt it on the other knee.)

b. heater- I disconnect during the summer.

c. Someone else covered the air box flappers.

d. WIndow gaskets- sometimes only leak air.

e. Cooler than normal trunk?-

Electrical

Blower- amp at spec? Two types of blowers per manual.

Headers- amazing heat from below.

Just curious- r134 or r12?
 
The car has an R134 system that I retrofitted into it about 12 years ago. I wrote extensively about it in the Roundel. It's a rotary compressor, the largest condenser core I could stuff inside the noise, a custom triple row evaporator core in the same physical space as the double row, and rebuilt squirrel cages. I haven't put a thermometer on the vents. Yes I'm clertain that the heat is off and the fresh air vents are closed. The a/c has been fine for most driving, but when I drove to Vintage at the Vineyards, with a three-hour run through Pennsylvania when it was 95 out and very humid, and the sun was just streaming in through the greenhouse of glass, the a/c couldn't keep up.

I believe, though I'm not 100% certain, that part of the issue is that this is an unfederalized CSi. Its glass is very clear as compared to other coupes I saw at V@V.

I had the windows tinted last week. They're a little darker than I had wanted, but the tint is about what you'd find on nearly any modern car -- and certainly waaaaay lighter than you find standard these days on minivans and SUVs.

The only issue is cleaning up the installation of the tinted film on the rear windshield.

Thanks for all the input, folks. I'll post some photos.
 
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