Speedometer drive seal replacement

Stevehose

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Since replacing the seal on the speedo drive is not documented in any forum that I could find, I gave it a go with my sub standard mechanical skills. There is a small seal (much like the tranny shift rod seal but half the size) inside the speedo drive housing and behind an NLA metal bushing. From what I could determine this bushing is pressed into the housing so there is no easy way to remove it so I got down and dirty with the vice grips after soaking it in Liquid Wrench for a day. Tighten the vice grips just enough so that you can twist the bushing in the housing (which is held with another set of pliers in a towel) like you are unscrewing it. Slowly work it back and forth while pulling up and it will eventually come out, the sides will be gouged by the vice grips but this is ok becaue the shaft does not contact them. Here is the bush out of the housing with the new seal next to them:

IMG_2426.JPG


I then deburred and sanded any rough plier marks smooth and also polished where the shaft touches the face of the bush. I had the vice grips too tight and I distorted the opening a very small amount so I squeezed it 90 degrees opposite to make the hole round again, no problemo. This is the nasty old seal that I am sure would have leaked after all my 5 speed install efforts. Notice the seal is flush with the indented edge inside:

IMG_2422.JPG


Removing was a bitch as it is very tight and no room to work with, I ended up cutting half the tip off a right angled pick seal, inserting it from the other side, then after catching the side of the seal I tapped it out. Like the shift rod seal, care must be taken not to score the metal. As seen i the first pic, I got it out and cleaned it all up.

Installing the new seal was treacherous, fortunately I have a history of destroying seals when installing them so I knew what to do here, and that is tap it VERY carefully, making sure one side does not start to creep in faster than another, otherwise you're toast if that happens. I used an 11mm deep socket on the ratchet side which seemed to fit nicely, important because the little bugger takes quite a pounding to get in there. The seal goes spring side up as in this pic:

IMG_2427.JPG


Hit it flush and you're good to go. This is applicable to both 4 and 5 speed speedo drives.
 
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Boy am I glad you posted this. I had the new seal and could not figure out how or where it went so left it off and sure enough it leaked. In true German fashion this is not an easy replacement but thanks to your detail got it repaired.
 
Seal size and source? As you know, this is a very common problem and a satisfying fix !
 
Shaft seal231214901928X14X6

I bought my seals from Maximillian as they were in stock. Google the PN and there are 3-4 other sources.
 
Good job! I almost ruined my plastic version in my automatic 2002:

 
My automatic 72 Bavaria is plastic. I bought some seals years ago and then sent all but one to forum members, now I cannot recall size or profile. I bought then independently, not from the dealer. My E9 leaks and is an automatic also so I anticipate needing to do this job.
 
Shaft seal231214901928X14X6

I bought my seals from Maximillian as they were in stock. Google the PN and there are 3-4 other sources.
I think I am in the situation of an oil leak from the Speedometer drive.


IMG_0521.jpg



I am confused because @pickman indicates that the Shaft seal is the reference 23 12 1 490 192 (8x14x16) but in this thread:


@gwittman Indicates that the reference is 24 21 1 200 139 (8x11.5x3) which has different measurements.

On the other hand RealOEM indicates that the correct one for a 2800CS ZF s5-16 is 24 21 1 200 139 (8x11.5x3) as @gwittman says.

Which would be the correct one for my 4-speed ZF manual gearbox on my BMW 2800 CS 1970?

On the other hand, the correct outer O-ring would be: 24278627913 (18x2.4)?
 
I have spent the weekend degreasing and cleaning the mess I had in the lower area of the engine, more specifically around the gearbox, since having found the first oil leak a few weeks ago (it was leaking from the oil pressure sensor), after changing the sensor it was still losing oil, this loss was slower and without a doubt, it was another type of oil (more yellow and with a stronger smell of sulfur).

BEFORE
IMG_0518.jpg


AFTER

IMG_0526.jpg
IMG_0535.jpg


My first thought was that it was the speedometer cable that connects to the ZF gearbox but I drove for an hour this morning and when I got home this is what I found.

IMG_0538.jpg


It seems that the loss does not come from the speedometer, it seems that it comes from the rear oil seal of the gearbox but I am not sure.

Do you think it could come from somewhere else? It seems that the rest of the box is clean and that the area where there are drops and oil is around the transmission bar that connects to the gearbox.
 
I would guess that the oil is coming from your main output seal.

In all 3 images titled 'after' you can see a brown drop hanging just below the seal.
Also in the first pic I think to see wetness around the seal; here:

Screenshot_20220424-213540_Samsung Internet.jpg

My guess would be to replace the main seal, but do clean, drive and inspect that specific area again if you want to be sure.

If that seal fails, then it is common to see oil spatter around it as it gets flung around, making pinpointing the source a bit vague sometimes.
 
Thank you very much for taking the time to analyze my images. I will clean the area again and do another test drive,

the truth is that, as you indicate, when the oil comes out of that seal and meets the rotating bar, the oil tends to spread like a spray and it is difficult to locate the origin but I agree that it is most likely the rear seal.

Taking this into account, I have a couple of doubts, the first is, if I would have to remove the gearbox to change the seal or can it be done with the box mounted on the car? and

would this be the seal in question? Position 21

1650834017302.jpeg


 
Make sure it's not leaking from the shift rod seal, #21 in your diagram.
In fact, the leak is coming from that checkpoint, that's what I was talking about with Erik. We believe that number 21 is possibly the seal that needs to be changed.
 
Steve meant seal number 20, it’s pretty small.
Yes thanks for correcting, seal #20. It's small and very easy to gouge the aluminum when removing. I'm not a fan of hammering it in then putting another one behind it, you never know how many are behind it at this point and if it doesn't go in far enough you're in big doodoo.
 
Thank you very much for the indication and clarification to both of you, the seal to which you refer, is it the one that marked in the image?

Captura de pantalla 2022-04-25 a las 10.05.31.png

If so, do you know where I could find it?

It seems that I have very limited access to identify if this seal is the one with the leak with the gearbox mounted, I will have to wait to disassemble at least the propeller shaft to be able to see if the loss comes from this other seal.
 
After doing a deeper search, it seems that the 23/4 scheme that we previously mentioned belongs to the Getrag gearbox and has nothing to do with the one that my car mounts.

Captura de pantalla 2022-04-25 a las 10.45.18.png



Captura de pantalla 2022-04-25 a las 10.52.15.png



I think the one in my car is the ZF Synchroma Getriebe S4 18/3 and this would be its exploded view.

14684259hq.jpg


From what I see, the Wallothnesch page only shows Getrag gearboxes.

In the Bmwfans page graph, the parts of the ZF gearbox appears to be seal No. 6, which would belong to No. 21 of the Getrag graph.

Captura de pantalla 2022-04-25 a las 10.56.13.png


As it seems, the Shaft popeller seal of the Getrag (Oil seal rear 40x55x10 mm) is of different sizes than the ZF (Shast Seal 38X52X10).

Getrag oil seal by Wallothnesch (position 21):


ZF seal by Bmwfans (position 6):


From what the graph of the ZF gearbox seems to indicate, position #20 no longer exists since it seems that the movements of the lever are transmitted by a rectangular bar at the top.

Captura de pantalla 2022-04-25 a las 11.20.44.png


Attached is the repair manual for the ZF - SYNCHROME - GEARBOX S5-18-3, which is the 5-speed model instead of 4-speed like mine, but for the purposes of the rectangular transmission bar it is the same.
 

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