The Lovely Winters in Portland. Updated!

[JMinPDX]

As some out of our area may have heard, we had quite a winter storm in northern Oregon yesterday. Not much snow but high winds and temps in the teens. We lost power at 10:00am.
Around 1:00 yesterday I heard a catastrophic crash as a huge tree on my neighbors property split and fell on my garage, breaching the roof and the ceiling. It’s also stretched the power line from the utility pole.
Miraculously my cars were not damaged, except for some bits of drywall and dust.
Now the waiting begins. We’ve filed a claim with our homeowner’s insurance and hoping to find a tree company to remove the tree and get tarps up ASAP.
Not to mention we still don’t have power and no word on when it gets restored.
Could have been worse. Neighbors on the other side had 4 trees fall, taking out part of their house and the fence between us.

 

[vince]

Holy Guacamole John!! A lot of the local group have been texting what their situations are around the area. I think Brian is without power and stuck up on his big hill but nothing like your situation. Glad that you guys are ok and and the cars made it through.

 

[dave v. in nc]

I'm a weather nerd, and thought about all of you NW guys...glad you are safe and healthy, and hope the insurance gods ease the pain very soon. The picture with the branch inside is a little scary...take care.

 

[lip277]

Nuts...
Glad you were ok and that the house itself was not hit...
Yeah, we have had some ugly weather up here in the PNW recently. Up in the Seattle area we had some winds also - but much more moderate. I am in the middle of a stand of second growth trees and every time the winds get big - I get nervous.

Good luck with the recovery and restoration. Hopefully it gets resolved soon.

 

[deQuincey]

As some out of our area may have heard, we had quite a winter storm in northern Oregon yesterday. Not much snow but high winds and temps in the teens. We lost power at 10:00am.
Around 1:00 yesterday I heard a catastrophic crash as a huge tree on my neighbors property split and fell on my garage, breaching the roof and the ceiling. It’s also stretched the power line from the utility pole.
Miraculously my cars were not damaged, except for some bits of drywall and dust.
Now the waiting begins. We’ve filed a claim with our homeowner’s insurance and hoping to find a tree company to remove the tree and get tarps up ASAP.
Not to mention we still don’t have power and no word on when it gets restored.
Could have been worse. Neighbors on the other side had 4 trees fall, taking out part of their house and the fence between us.

View attachment 175165
View attachment 175166

good that it stopped there
you were lucky

while watching those structures being affected by winds, and other natural disasters…
….I wonder why don’t you use more concrete construction…
is it too expensive ?
another reason ?

would a concrete construction solve this kind of problems…?


probably you have already thought about it, but…

 

[JMinPDX]

good that it stopped there
you were lucky

while watching those structures being affected by winds, and other natural disasters…
….I wonder why don’t you use more concrete construction…
is it too expensive ?
another reason ?

would a concrete construction solve this kind of problems…?


probably you have already thought about it, but…

Good questions. We have always built homes out of wood here in the US different than in Europe. I’m not a builder, but I do watch “This Old House”, So I’ll try to answer. While most foundations are concrete or cinder block, I believe costs would be much higher to build the whole house and you’re limited to building smaller box shaped structures. Not to mention concrete does not perform well in earthquakes.
You would stIll have to build the roof structure from wood or similar materials. In my situation the tree breached the roof structure only, so I don’t think it would have made much difference.

Rain is coming this week so I have to get up there with tarps tomorrow. Tree companies are swamped and it’s going to take a crane to get this big fella out so it may be a week or more. Still no word on when we get power. Booked a hotel for the next two nights.
Attitude is everything, I’m trying to keep a good one.

 

[Stevehose]

Wow, having been through several hurricanes, sometimes your number comes up, sometimes not. Glad you dodged the important bullets.

 

[lip277]

while watching those structures being affected by winds, and other natural disasters…
….I wonder why don’t you use more concrete construction…
is it too expensive ?
another reason ?

would a concrete construction solve this kind of problems…?


probably you have already thought about it, but…

There are a couple of reasons that houses (and other smaller structures) are built out of wood in the western United States.....
1 - Historical Availability
Much of the US (other than the central plains) have - or at least had - abundant forests to pull trees from for making lumber. Anyone who has driven up and down the west coast of Canada and the US has seen these forests firsthand.
2 - Earthquakes
From an 'engineering' standpoint, construction using wood provides a somewhat flexible structure that deals with earthquakes much better than concrete or masonry construction. While the concrete may be more durable and able to withstand higher forces in certain instances, the dynamic environment that structures are subject to with earthquakes makes that stiffness a liability. Wood bends before it breaks. Concrete - bends a little then fails totally.
Building codes require certain parameters be met for earthquakes. That pretty much guides us to use wood constriction on the west coast.

Out here - Even if you see a home with a brick facade (on a home built since the 1960's probably) - odds are that the brick or stone you see is a facade over standard wood stud construction methods used behind that facade.

 

[deQuincey]

Good questions. We have always built homes out of wood here in the US different than in Europe. I’m not a builder, but I do watch “This Old House”, So I’ll try to answer. While most foundations are concrete or cinder block, I believe costs would be much higher to build the whole house and you’re limited to building smaller box shaped structures. Not to mention concrete does not perform well in earthquakes.
You would stIll have to build the roof structure from wood or similar materials. In my situation the tree breached the roof structure only, so I don’t think it would have made much difference.

Rain is coming this week so I have to get up there with tarps tomorrow. Tree companies are swamped and it’s going to take a crane to get this big fella out so it may be a week or more. Still no word on when we get power. Booked a hotel for the next two nights.
Attitude is everything, I’m trying to keep a good one.

There are a couple of reasons that houses (and other smaller structures) are built out of wood in the western United States.....
1 - Historical Availability
Much of the US (other than the central plains) have - or at least had - abundant forests to pull trees from for making lumber. Anyone who has driven up and down the west coast of Canada and the US has seen these forests firsthand.
2 - Earthquakes
From an 'engineering' standpoint, construction using wood provides a somewhat flexible structure that deals with earthquakes much better than concrete or masonry construction. While the concrete may be more durable and able to withstand higher forces in certain instances, the dynamic environment that structures are subject to with earthquakes makes that stiffness a liability. Wood bends before it breaks. Concrete - bends a little then fails totally.
Building codes require certain parameters be met for earthquakes. That pretty much guides us to use wood constriction on the west coast.

Out here - Even if you see a home with a brick facade (on a home built since the 1960's probably) - odds are that the brick or stone you see is a facade over standard wood stud construction methods used behind that facade.

appreciate the responses,

of course it makes sense to use wood due to the reasons that you mentioned

if earthquake is a concern the structure would be much more complex

p.s. We build the whole structure of houses with concrete, roof included, lighther pretensioned beams are used, and a final compression layer, but the whole house structure is concrete
yes foundations are massive

as to cost, here the bigger influence on the final price is the value of the land, that is scarce


wish you John that things get solved as quick as possible

Regards

 

[Arde]

Bummer. Is the insurer Allstate?

 

[Ohmess]

Wow. So did that branch come thru the roof and miss your coupe, that cabinet and your mini-fridge? If I have that right, the Car Gods were looking out for you.

 

[JMinPDX]

Wow. So did that branch come thru the roof and miss your coupe, that cabinet and your mini-fridge? If I have that right, the Car Gods were looking out for you.

That branch did puncture the roof and came to rest on top of the tall wine fridge. I lowered it to floor. It’s about 5” thick. Below is a photo of it from the roof side it.
My garage is two and half cars deep. The coupe was farther forward. I pushed the cars back incase anything else fell. The main trunk penetrated the roof just above the coupe and my 02. Broke the roof truss and broke rafters. That’s the second photo.
Going to need a crane to lift it off. Cranes are at least a week out so all limbs were cut today and a tarp is going on tomorrow before it starts raining.

Incremental progress. We have a general contractor, waiting for insurance adjuster (not Allstate)
Still no power. 30 degree temps in my house. Staying at a hotel.

 

[CSteve]

@JMinPDX, didn't you move from New Jersey to get away from just such a storm?

Steve

 

[dave v. in nc]

Stay safe...not getting any better in the short term..
Other half of the culprit doesn't look like its long for it either...

 

[Norm!]

Wow! Glad you and your cars are OK. As Dave suggested, definitely take down the rest of that tree. It looks like it might have been topped a couple of times early in its life. That can create narrow crotches that are prone to splitting off like half just did. There’s another narrow crotch just above waiting to break in the next wild storm. Good luck with your insurance adventures.

 

[JMinPDX]

@JMinPDX, didn't you move from New Jersey to get away from just such a storm?

Steve

Yeah but the wine is better here.

Stay safe...not getting any better in the short term..
Other half of the culprit doesn't look like its long for it either...

Yes, what remains of the tree does not instill much confidence. An arborist looked at it yesterday and said it’s not an imminent danger. Fingers crossed it survives tonight’s ice storm. I’ll be addressing it‘s future with my neighbor, who have been MIA since it fell, and our HOA. Tree has been removed, roof is tarped, power seems to be restored, insurance adjuster has made contact, one more night in the hotel. Temps approaching normal tomorrow. Life is good.

​

 

[coupedegrace]

Totally missed your adventures until now. Glad the damage was minor and things are getting sorted! Sounds like you're doing okay now, but let me know if you need a hand with anything.

Thirties in the house? Looking on the bright side, the things in the fridge will probably be okay.

Patricia has a friend in SW PDX that lost 4 trees. She was also fortunate that her house was pretty unmolested I think.

 

[coupedegrace]

while watching those structures being affected by winds, and other natural disasters…
….I wonder why don’t you use more concrete construction…
is it too expensive ?
another reason ?

There are a couple of other factors. Most people in the US, especially outside of big cities, live in single family residences. One building, standing alone on its own lot, surrounded by a garden or lawn with one family living in it. And when we say family we usually mean mother, father and young children. This is probably the kind of dwelling that your son lived in when he was in Arkansas. When everybody is living in their own individual house, it makes construction costs more important.

In an apartment building there are a lot of shared costs that are spread out across everyone who lives there. People share foundations and roofs. Walls and floors and ceilings are also shared. I'm sure there are quite a few other shared costs as well. If I live upstairs from you, my floor and your ceiling are shared costs (to some degree). I think this helps to reduce costs and allows for more expensive construction techniques.

Also many homes in the US are built "on spec," meaning that the builder doesn't have a buyer for the home yet. They just build it "speculating" that somebody will come along and buy it. Investing this money without a known buyer pushes the people building houses to keep construction costs down. I'm not saying US houses are poorly constructed, just that there are cost reasons that also push certain construction techniques. Many of our multifamily buildings are built in a similar way - a developer or investment group builds the apartment building with the hopes that people will move into it.

I remember that in Spain people would put money into building funds or savings accounts to help finance new construction, and I assume this is still going on. The fact that people have already invested in the new construction, and I assume are contractually obligated to the project, puts much less risk on the builders. This also allows for more expensive construction methods to be used.

The United States is big, and the population is relatively small in relation to the size of the country. This meant that land has been relatively inexpensive outside of big, dense cities. Land and housing costs have been going up across much of the country, but overall I think that land to build housing on is still quite a bit cheaper than it is in much of Europe.

 

[CSteve]

@coupedegrace I have to disagree about the quality of single family home construction. I live in the wealthy part of Bucks County PA. Got in early, 1978, when college teachers could still afford to live there. I live in Solebury the township surrounded by four other wealthy townships. Many of the developers of the high end developments were builders like Toll Brothers. Today we are talking million dollar houses and up. Way up! Not like Silicon Valley but not too far away. From the curb, well actually there on no curbs or sidewalks, they have terrific curb appeal. You know, six bedrooms, nine bathrooms, four car garage, 5,000 +sq ft. But peel back the onion and you will find the cheapest of the cheap building materials hammered together by untrained workers. Plastic and vinyl posing as wood. Hmm, sounds like the interior of a modern car.

I knocked on a column of a large, brick front house(they save money by only doing the front), it was metal with a hollow ring. The great room and kitchen of another house, a Toll Home, had plywood floors that bounced when you tread on the carpet. He had filed a law suit based on other problems.

I could go on and on. So I am going to generalize here. Much of the construction of the last 40 years has been similar to what I have described.
Now I am not blaming the contractors entirely. They are, as you say, faced with rising land costs and recently materials costs. I heard that a sheet of plywood was selling for $100. recently. Their costs are going way up.

Please, everyone jump in and tell me I am wrong.

 

[Norm!]

This is getting a little off topic, but I can say your experience doesn’t match mine in California. I spent my career in land development as a private consultant and City Engineer. I didn’t work directly in the building inspection role but had plenty of exposure to it. Maybe California codes are more stringent or inspection is better, but quality is generally pretty good. Certainly there’s a little corner cutting on non code required items (such a fake stone) when the target market allows it, but nothing like you describe. Of course house prices are much higher per square foot based on demand and wages which may result in a higher budget for better quality.