Thinking about joining the club, with an original 12k mile cs

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m635dude

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Hello everyone,

As the title suggests I'm looking at purchasing an original 12k mile '72 3.0cs. It's an auto car with sunroof in polaris over blue leather. Now before I get everyone to excited, this is a project car. The story on the car was that it was rolled in the first year of ownership. I have pics from the roll and it wasn't that bad. The car sat in a garage until 15 years ago when the current owner bought it and started to fix the damage. All of the body work is done and the car is ready to be painted and put back together, but it's been sitting in it's current state for the last 12 years.

I've heard about the car for a while but saw it for the first time today and I have to say that I am very impressed. After looking at the shock towers, underneath, and the engine bay, you can really tell that this is a 12k mile original car. My question though is what's this car worth in it's current state? and what could it be worth all fixed up? I know this is a tough question, but there isn't a spot of rust or rot on the car, and how many sub 20k mile cars are out there? It is currently completely stripped but it comes with all of the parts for it, a mint, 12k mile blue leather interior, a '78 633csi with a built motor running triple webbers mated to a 5spd (rusty car though), and a bunch of other misc parts.

Most projects I see listed have lots of rust and / or need lots of parts. This car has all of the parts and doesn't have a spot of rust anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I know this would be a big project. But I know that fixing rust on a car like this would be an even bigger project. I had an e30 M3 that I started chasing rust on and will never do it again.

Just thought I'd post as an introduction to myself and just curious as to what people think a car like this is worth in it's current condition. I appreciate any information and will try to get pictures up later tonight once I can plug my phone into my computer. I'm hoping that I'll soon became a very active member on this forum. Thanks again,

-Adam West
 
My personal feeling is that it's not worth a whole lot (trust me, I hate to say this). If you are talking about a shell, then there is a lot of labor to get it back together. Plus, the words "rolled," "coupe," and "not that bad," just don't seem to go together to me. I know I haven't seen the pictures but if I were a potential buyer I would be more concerned about the accident than I would be impressed by the low mileage of anything other than a CSL or CS/CSi with provenance. Come to think of it, the length of time that it has taken to do anything with the car and the fact that it has not been completed by two owners smells like it is more of a project than is evident. I would get a solid estimate from a shop that knows coupes (Mario, Don, Carl, Peter) and ask them what it would take to finish the car (to your specs) and then figure out at what price you are comfortable with paying for someone else's unfinished project.

HTH,

Walter
 
Interesting scenario. This looks like a labor intesive project so it is hard to value without knowing what labor cost you assume (DIY vs. shop costs).

Taking the extremes, the liquidation value of the car could get you 5k$ for the pristine interior you mention, maybe 4k$ for the rest, with the headache of selling the parts over time including the shell. So to part it for a decent profit one would look at paying say half of the 9k$.

Assuming a nice restoration, a 5-speed conversion, a refresh of all the tired parts, and no vestiges of the roll accident while keeping the visceral feel of a 12k mile coupe would be worth 20-30k I guess.

If the car is a keeper for you, then neither the liquidation value nor the restored value are that important. The cost of finishing the project is the main thing that matters.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

As far as the two previous owners not getting it fixed, well it's a long story. First person had it, rolled it between 6 months- 1 year of it being new. He then parked it in his garage where it sat. The current owner then came along and purchased it with the intentions of restoring it. He is a car collector / seller and all of his free time in the last 20 years has been spent on restoring a '54 Buick Skylark. He just finished the car and it received 399 out of 400 points. After spending all of that time and all of that money on the skylark, I think he just doesn't want to be bothered with another project right away. When he bought the CS he also bought a parts car which was used to fix the body. The front fenders, hood, roof, and one rear quarter were damaged and he had new metal pieced in, not a bondo job. The car is ready for paint as it sits so most of the real labor intensive stuff is done with. The rest is basically reassembly which I would do mostly myself.

Here's some pics I took today, I'll see if I can scan the pics from when it was rolled tomorrow. Sorry for the quality, dark garage with not much room and just an iphone isn't a great recipe for pictures. Once it stops raining here we will be pushing the car outside for a better look so I'll get some better pics then. Anyways here they are and if anyone else has more input that would be awesome! thanks - Adam

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Adam,

If the damaged panels are all straight/new (and the car frame is straight), I would think $10-15k easy. All those interior parts are very expensive and hard to get. No rust is a huge bonus. It is not just the cost the replacement panels, but their removal, and re-welding onto the body that add up.

I think there will always be some future buyers that will be scared away from this car given its history. However, if you intend to keep it and have the funds to put another $15-25 k (or perhaps more) into her for painting, transmission swap, (engine rebuilt), rubber you would have an awesome specimen of an e9.

When you get it outside try and sight down the sides (get the doors closed) to see how it looks from side to side. Check the frame rails underneath for straightness and the roof pillars for any signs of buckling or being off kilter; probably all hard to do if you are not an experienced body guy. You could check the engine bay for squareness by measuring diagonally across to the same points on each side. Or better, yet get a body shop to make a field visit to inspect.

You should inspect the rocker panels carefully. 12k miles in the east coast could have caused some damage to this area (along with the sunroof front drains & 'C' pillar drains).

my 2¢
 
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Thanks for your thoughts Sven. The damage was repaired properly and from what I could tell in the shop, the car is very straight and true. The panel and door fit is excellent all around and you can't tell where they seemed in the new panels. From what I could see underneath there was no rust at all in the rockers or anywhere else, but I know that these cars have lots of little places for rust to hide. Luckily the car has been in dry storage since the incident which has really helped preserve the vehicle.

My plans for it would be to take the built motor and trans out of the 633 that comes with the CS and put it into the CS. What I just want to make sure of is that I don't get to upside down in this car. I figure I could have the car all together and in excellent shape for around $30k, maybe a little more, not including my time. I feel at this price point that I would be able to sell it and not loose out much, would you guys agree?

Can most parts for these cars be found still? The misc rubber items are what I'm concerned with and maybe some of the trim pieces. I'd be putting the car back to original specifications except for the motor, trans, rear diff, diff mount reinforcement, wheels, and probably suspension. I would like to do a color change but the car is currently all prepped for paint and at this point it would just make sense to keep it the original polaris. Thanks again for your time and comments and hopefully you guys will be seeing much more of myself on these forums. - Adam
 
Wow! I had expected a lot more damage from a rollover. it doesn't look that bad. ( yes, I know that's a relative term.)

Check the rear windshield opening- 11mm clearance for the gasket, glass, etc.

You didn't say if the parts car was manual. For the conversion from auto, you'll need a pedal set up. There are several write ups on it.

Save it.
 
It really doesn't seem like it was that bad. I guess it was two local celebrities who had a bit to much to drink and the rest is history.

The 633 is a manual. The owner of the cars did have a pedal set up but actually already used it a couple of years ago converting another CS from auto to manual. I'm assuming a custom driveshaft would need to be made up but that's not really that big of a deal. I'm a certified T.I.G. welder so doing the exhaust wouldn't be bad either, although I might just stick with getting an aftermarket set-up. The 6 series has 16" gold centered BBS RS's which I think would look pretty good on the CS, although without the gold. Overall I don't think there would be any major challenges in putting the car back together. Although I say that now, I'll probably be biting my tongue down the road :)
 
If you are doing the work yourself I'd say go for it.

I lower my estimate on the final value, I don't think you end up with an original 12k mi coupe. Much of the metal is from a donor car, the drivetrain is not original nor 12kmi, what you have is a 12kmi interior. Hope you can use that argument to lower your purchase price :).

Now, if you do a Jabberjaw type of car, then the value wil increase...
 
61porsche said:
Wow! I had expected a lot more damage from a rollover. it doesn't look that bad.
Click to expand...

That was my reaction too. The roof structure of an e9 isn't that robust (which is part of why they look so elegant), so if the car fully rolls over, the roof usually gets severely deformed.

Before investing in any more bodywork or paint, I would attempt to assemble the windows, bumpers, grilles, rear lights, and any other trim onto the body. Make SURE everything has been aligned properly before assuming that the body has been repaired to factory specifications.
 
"not-that-bad" - my worst nightmare

My wife says she thinks she looks "not that bad" at 63, but wants to see the plastic surgeon anyway. The cost of restoring all her parts, and your car, would probably be similar, but you could still see the wrinkles in either case.
Squinting.
Without your glasses.
At 20 feet.
;-(
(Do NOT tell her I posted this or I will find you....)

A recent joke I saw:
"My nightmare is that -after my death- my wife sells my cars for what I told her they cost me."

My advice: buy the best car you "cannot afford" and you will be happier than buying the car you thought you could afford. "Quality is remembered after price is long forgotten." I think that's how the saying goes. I can't quite remember. Now where did I leave my keys?

;-)
 
I expected it to look worse also. But then I remembered back to high school when a friend rolled his '68 bug - probably one of the only contemporary cars worse for rollovers. Miraculously the car survived with only some wrinkles across the roof. [for Arde and other Bay Area’ers – the rollover was at the slight left kink on 85 between Fremont and El Camino. How did he loose it there?] He drove it for another couple of years… until he smashed it again after lifting on the gas mid-corner somewhere around the Stevens Creek Reservoir dam.
Getting back on topic: lucky break for the driver of the car.
M635dude. you seem to have realistic goals and expectations on it, I'd say work backward from your acceptable "final" price and make the seller the offer that you can live with. For example: [$30k for final] minus [$20k for your finishing costs] = $10k starting point for Rover (I took the liberty of naming the car based on the propensity to rollover)
 
One issue that would scare me away is that all of the wrinkles appear to have been repaired with bondo. this will leave a lot of places that are prone to rust through. Bondo expands and contracts differently over the years so you might have some problems there if you kept the car for a long time. The 12,000 mile claim I would be very suspicious of.... It could be 112,000.
 
Thanks for the words guys. Some very good advice and information here.

As far as the miles are concerned, it is an original 12k mile car. There is no doubt in my mind about that. The owner of the car is my boss and he owns a car lot where we specialize in unique and low mileage vehicles. I would trust his word on almost anything and have known him for most of my life. Even if that wasn't a factor, the car has the original tires on it, the seats are flawless and haven't been redone, the stickers around the engine bay are like new, it's def a 12k mile example.

As far as the roof goes, it was straightened to near perfect and then it was gone over with some bondo. It's not like there is pounds of bondo on the vehicle, but it could still be a concern.

After putting lots of thought into it, I'm feeling like I'm going to pass on the car. Right now I'm pretty busy in my life and my goal would be to have the car done in a year, but realistically, to do it right I'd probably be looking at something more like 5 years. I may still purchase the car as a future project, but it would be really nice to see this car get put together and be on the road again.

Thanks again to everyone for the comments and suggestions. I'll update this thread when I figure out more. - Adam
 
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