Bertocchi
Well-Known Member
I am still scratching my head;
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/1535571292.html
No affiliation,
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/1535571292.html
No affiliation,
Very optimistic seller
- Thread starter Bertocchi
- Start date
$10K and it is not even running!
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Well, yea, but as the seller writes: "(it) is an awesome car that would be a wonderful restoration project and would be uniquely stunning once fixed up." And, he includes one whole picture of the car. I mean, what more could you want?
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jranmann
Banned
This listing just may be another perfect example (talisman?) of a typical Ran moment.. with yours truly getting all hyped up (last month) and excited about a particular CS only to be let down later (once again) by the strange oddities of the CS Coupe universe... yep, you say... close but no cigar, right?...
Yeah, yeah OK so I donated my spleen (like Steve Jobs) to the Salvation Army and where has that gotten me? (if truth be told) thankfully back workin' in my garage again, that's where! (Remember that Steve when you are in doubt, I'm right back where it all came together for us and Apple Computer prior to Bill Gates... so long ago now, wasn't it?) So, if one works his fingers to the bone building up a great company, what does he get in reward? (Not bony fingers, smart ass) This listing appears however to show a coupe I've seen before...most recently up for sale in NY.
At least for today Bertocchi (and you other flumoxed Coupe detectives?)... ...scratch your collective heads no longer.. I just may have with me somewhere a bit of special insider knowledge that just may allow me to solve this riddle and determine in the process why the guy is so 'firm' on his asking price (if you could call it that?) and yet hide his tremendous offering out on a dirt road somewhere...and 30 feet from the camera lens!
Also, please don't accuse me of insider trading, charge me with price-fixing or compare me (or my wife for that matter) to our own beloved Martha Stewart ...if indeed I am mistaken I can apologize and perhaps do a stint in the potato peeling unit...and if i've sullied this particular vehicle's provenance well....so what? On the other hand... I just might be dead on correct...deal?
Gent's, I have a strong hunch this Coupe is the very same (++seriously++) rust-challenged (for lack of a more fitting hyperbole) '73 CS that I passed on reluctantly in early November... Indeed, Mario Langsten was consulted as to the car's overall conditon as well, and brave as that man from New Hampshire is... (no guts, no glory?) when Mario looked at the pics on my behalf, he replyed back in a New York minute (via email)... "Pass on this one, Ran.." so reluctanly I did as he indicated. Trouble is when I saw it, it was still Agave Green.
So, just for grins let's have a bit of fun and ask the seller a few poignant questions over the next few days...and perhaps suss out the truth where at first there was none? Most particularly why he decided to go to the hardware store and buy a dozen cans of flat-black Rustoleum paint and then spray it over that nice deep green that we all know and love just to cover his tracks...geez I hope not!
Anyway, when I saw Julian's car in mid-November I thought to myself... Wow, my search criteria for a Coupe has finally been fulfilled ....I can purchase one! Thank you Lord... a good car that's still the original color AND best of all.. it's not BLUE! ! (no offense you FJorders)
Later and yes, a bit more subdued, I helplessly watched as my previous elation slowly landed downwind and turned into a heavy morose wallowing in my own foolishness...Sure the reverie lasted for only for a moment but it was swell...brief yes...and for all you sweet lovers... about as long as it takes to toast a marshmallow say, but without catching it alight~! The car was not fixible and IF this is the same car it's a sin to pass it off as something 'Stunning' but show it only at a distance...!
I also believe I still possess a complete set of pics PO sent me somewhere ..that we can use to tease the seller with since HIS photo is so lame and well, he needs to represent the car a bit more visually if he thinks he's going to triple his investment in a month on the backs of all of us hard working BMW aficionados...Right? I will dig them out so at least we can play a couple of very 'firm' rounds of "Get the Seller" not unlike Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor played in the epic B&W movie from the sixties (if for no better reason than to calm this guys avarice, greed and smartly demonstrate to him him that not everyone from Gainsville need be so index oriented for heaven's sake)... that is if I can count on a few of you to play along once it's identity has been revealed of course?
Here's the November listing I saved:
Re: BMW 1973 3.0CS Coupe - Classic - $5000 (East Patchogue, NY)
Date: November 16, 2009 3:03:17 AM PST
To: [email protected]
The seller (Julian Arbus) is/was a really nice chap (writer) and it's a shame he let it go for so cheap....but then again, what can one do with old rust?
Here's the PO and BMW data...
Car is from Long Island NY, was sold by Julian Nov 23, 2009. So the car listed at $5k and likely sold for well under that.
(Note: Julians email addy is above if anyone wishes to inquire or get any further facts)
Even at that price though, the rust was more than scary, believe me... no matter how much the calm green exterior contrasted with what's growing underneath those sheepskins and carpeting...Likely the reason it's on the market again although he could have fixed it all in record time no? ( I have heard thru special messenger that of a Coupe being completely dissasembled and repaired in less than two years) that 'short' time-frame is now thankfully possible, given as the high-tech industry has finally lost interest in Cupertino and points north and made it's way into the heart of Georgia centrally located at the headquarters of the Automotive Body Shop Association of the New World Confederacy...Networking across the nation...Who would have thought it ten years ago that the Amalgamated Enamel Painters of America would have come this far in a such short amount of time? (alas, i digress, apologies!)
My interest to buy this car was quite strong guys, Agave color is original to the vehicle according to Andreas at BMW (Fess up, did anyone else send that hard working guy a Christmas card at BMW?...he has forgotten as much as Stan will ever garner for our registry purposes ... patiently answered questions for us all and always seems right on the money, at least in my experience) Don't write your Congressman and complain about the crap economic policy of the USA.....(do write to Andreas in Germany and please thank him again for me!)
Say here's an idea. Would someone ask the seller via Craig's leg mail what he's contributed to the car lately, how long he's owned it and if it's got any rust to speak of? :mrgreen:
Warning...Do prepare yourself (before sending message) for the inevitable reply containing all that BMW Coupe history lesson crap... culled and force-fed by cutting and pasting from Wikpedia and then pasting into ebay and the 'leg of Craig'...and Please! and if you can... take notes?) Should be great fun and maybe in the end the seller will soften up his financial 'stiffness' and reduce his price to some lucky buyer.
I am sure Julian will be tickled to see his 'ride' again featured prominently in this advert... and painted black no less...that is until he sees the 'firm' asking price ...and exclaims )($$&#*#O!
Just maybe I should send this guy some proper pictures of his car (IF they are the same) and the one I almost fell for last month...all those nasty rust-prone areas fully exposed to the world..areas that the seller is unwilling to even look at and only remembers they are there when he hears the creaks and groans emmitted from the trunk as the car slowly makes it's way up his 4 mile dirt driveway...!
PS. Stan, the VIN should of course match and be cooberated first (with the new owner here) and prior to registering this OK... PM me when you have it from the seller and we will compare notes...It should also be interesting to hear what the fellow from Georgia has to say ...again...thanks for your dilligent if a bit overzealous work on our Registry!
(Hey, I could be wrong Steve, right?)
See Ya!
Wozniak
Factoids:
On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Julian Arbus wrote:
Ran,
It was a pleasure talking to you so I figured I owed you a quick note just to let you know that I sold the coupe today.
Julian
Coupe was manufactured on November 14th, 1972 and delivered on November 22nd, 1972 to Hoffman Motors in New York City. The original colour was Agave, paint code 071.
BMW-Andreas
Yeah, yeah OK so I donated my spleen (like Steve Jobs) to the Salvation Army and where has that gotten me? (if truth be told) thankfully back workin' in my garage again, that's where! (Remember that Steve when you are in doubt, I'm right back where it all came together for us and Apple Computer prior to Bill Gates... so long ago now, wasn't it?) So, if one works his fingers to the bone building up a great company, what does he get in reward? (Not bony fingers, smart ass) This listing appears however to show a coupe I've seen before...most recently up for sale in NY.
At least for today Bertocchi (and you other flumoxed Coupe detectives?)... ...scratch your collective heads no longer.. I just may have with me somewhere a bit of special insider knowledge that just may allow me to solve this riddle and determine in the process why the guy is so 'firm' on his asking price (if you could call it that?) and yet hide his tremendous offering out on a dirt road somewhere...and 30 feet from the camera lens!
Also, please don't accuse me of insider trading, charge me with price-fixing or compare me (or my wife for that matter) to our own beloved Martha Stewart ...if indeed I am mistaken I can apologize and perhaps do a stint in the potato peeling unit...and if i've sullied this particular vehicle's provenance well....so what? On the other hand... I just might be dead on correct...deal?
Gent's, I have a strong hunch this Coupe is the very same (++seriously++) rust-challenged (for lack of a more fitting hyperbole) '73 CS that I passed on reluctantly in early November... Indeed, Mario Langsten was consulted as to the car's overall conditon as well, and brave as that man from New Hampshire is... (no guts, no glory?) when Mario looked at the pics on my behalf, he replyed back in a New York minute (via email)... "Pass on this one, Ran.." so reluctanly I did as he indicated. Trouble is when I saw it, it was still Agave Green.
So, just for grins let's have a bit of fun and ask the seller a few poignant questions over the next few days...and perhaps suss out the truth where at first there was none? Most particularly why he decided to go to the hardware store and buy a dozen cans of flat-black Rustoleum paint and then spray it over that nice deep green that we all know and love just to cover his tracks...geez I hope not!
Anyway, when I saw Julian's car in mid-November I thought to myself... Wow, my search criteria for a Coupe has finally been fulfilled ....I can purchase one! Thank you Lord... a good car that's still the original color AND best of all.. it's not BLUE! ! (no offense you FJorders)
Later and yes, a bit more subdued, I helplessly watched as my previous elation slowly landed downwind and turned into a heavy morose wallowing in my own foolishness...Sure the reverie lasted for only for a moment but it was swell...brief yes...and for all you sweet lovers... about as long as it takes to toast a marshmallow say, but without catching it alight~! The car was not fixible and IF this is the same car it's a sin to pass it off as something 'Stunning' but show it only at a distance...!
I also believe I still possess a complete set of pics PO sent me somewhere ..that we can use to tease the seller with since HIS photo is so lame and well, he needs to represent the car a bit more visually if he thinks he's going to triple his investment in a month on the backs of all of us hard working BMW aficionados...Right? I will dig them out so at least we can play a couple of very 'firm' rounds of "Get the Seller" not unlike Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor played in the epic B&W movie from the sixties (if for no better reason than to calm this guys avarice, greed and smartly demonstrate to him him that not everyone from Gainsville need be so index oriented for heaven's sake)... that is if I can count on a few of you to play along once it's identity has been revealed of course?
Here's the November listing I saved:
Re: BMW 1973 3.0CS Coupe - Classic - $5000 (East Patchogue, NY)
Date: November 16, 2009 3:03:17 AM PST
To: [email protected]
The seller (Julian Arbus) is/was a really nice chap (writer) and it's a shame he let it go for so cheap....but then again, what can one do with old rust?
Here's the PO and BMW data...
Car is from Long Island NY, was sold by Julian Nov 23, 2009. So the car listed at $5k and likely sold for well under that.
(Note: Julians email addy is above if anyone wishes to inquire or get any further facts)
Even at that price though, the rust was more than scary, believe me... no matter how much the calm green exterior contrasted with what's growing underneath those sheepskins and carpeting...Likely the reason it's on the market again although he could have fixed it all in record time no? ( I have heard thru special messenger that of a Coupe being completely dissasembled and repaired in less than two years) that 'short' time-frame is now thankfully possible, given as the high-tech industry has finally lost interest in Cupertino and points north and made it's way into the heart of Georgia centrally located at the headquarters of the Automotive Body Shop Association of the New World Confederacy...Networking across the nation...Who would have thought it ten years ago that the Amalgamated Enamel Painters of America would have come this far in a such short amount of time? (alas, i digress, apologies!)
My interest to buy this car was quite strong guys, Agave color is original to the vehicle according to Andreas at BMW (Fess up, did anyone else send that hard working guy a Christmas card at BMW?...he has forgotten as much as Stan will ever garner for our registry purposes ... patiently answered questions for us all and always seems right on the money, at least in my experience) Don't write your Congressman and complain about the crap economic policy of the USA.....(do write to Andreas in Germany and please thank him again for me!)
Say here's an idea. Would someone ask the seller via Craig's leg mail what he's contributed to the car lately, how long he's owned it and if it's got any rust to speak of? :mrgreen:
Warning...Do prepare yourself (before sending message) for the inevitable reply containing all that BMW Coupe history lesson crap... culled and force-fed by cutting and pasting from Wikpedia and then pasting into ebay and the 'leg of Craig'...and Please! and if you can... take notes?) Should be great fun and maybe in the end the seller will soften up his financial 'stiffness' and reduce his price to some lucky buyer.
I am sure Julian will be tickled to see his 'ride' again featured prominently in this advert... and painted black no less...that is until he sees the 'firm' asking price ...and exclaims )($$&#*#O!
Just maybe I should send this guy some proper pictures of his car (IF they are the same) and the one I almost fell for last month...all those nasty rust-prone areas fully exposed to the world..areas that the seller is unwilling to even look at and only remembers they are there when he hears the creaks and groans emmitted from the trunk as the car slowly makes it's way up his 4 mile dirt driveway...!
PS. Stan, the VIN should of course match and be cooberated first (with the new owner here) and prior to registering this OK... PM me when you have it from the seller and we will compare notes...It should also be interesting to hear what the fellow from Georgia has to say ...again...thanks for your dilligent if a bit overzealous work on our Registry!
(Hey, I could be wrong Steve, right?)
See Ya!
Wozniak
Factoids:
On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Julian Arbus wrote:
Ran,
It was a pleasure talking to you so I figured I owed you a quick note just to let you know that I sold the coupe today.
Julian
Coupe was manufactured on November 14th, 1972 and delivered on November 22nd, 1972 to Hoffman Motors in New York City. The original colour was Agave, paint code 071.
BMW-Andreas
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Hey Woz,
Regarding your E9 search, I spent 2 weeks in San Francisco and saw lots of 2002 daily drivers but no coupes.
I could use your skills for the Apple tablet launch. You say in 100 words what can be said in 10. What can I say about a tablet, another gadget for hyperactive day traders.
Went for an espresso, me, a believer in the espresso joint being like Roman baths in imperial Rome, or Viennese coffee shops a century ago, but all tables were taken by isolated anti-socials on their MAC computers. Sad. Walked to Filmore for the middle eastern Turkish slow coffee ritual, took me 20 minutes just to get the Armenian owner to accept the term "Turkish". Cardamom Turkish is to coffee what carburators are to E9. I love that line, trying to work it into my keynote.
Anyway, just wanted to vent my skeptical spleen, how can Julian say that it was pleasure speaking with you, and how can Andreas say that a car manufactured on a Tuesday was delivered in New York the following Wednesday? Fedex?
Good luck on your quixotic E9 search, even from my armchair I enjoy your journey.
jranmann
Banned
I'll be brief, curt and refrain from straining your eyesight Steve...
:mrgreen:
It may be that Julian, also a writer might just be another possible candidate for the tablet?
Have to admit those Dutch shipping lines ran a tight operation, not unlike the Japanese of today who industrially mill lumber (aboard ship after they leave port... so that it's milled and bundled when offloaded in Kobe four days later...
(Likely Hoffman convinced BMW (not unlike an early portent of Alpina?) to just crate the assembled parts and he then hired itinerant Checkoslovakian to assemble the cars while crossing the Atlantic... Perhaps that's why they are so dissimilar, one to another. One thing that the Germans do well is technical literature and
IIRC BMW's records indicate leaving European exit ports and the delivery date at Hoffman's NY lot...and of course the interval depticts the crossing time plus perhaps a few days to get the car from the docks in NY to Hoffman's storage facility in NYC.
Nowadays in Long Beach the Toyota's stacked up there go out of warranty before the dealerships ever see them!
Nice to hear from you too...
W
Delivery Date
The delivery to Hoffman is most likely the FOB date when the shipper picked it up at the factory or when it arrived at the port of departure. Not all US coupes were sent to NY contrary to Andreas' archive which makes sense, many came right to Long Beach/Los Angeles (and other ports in the US) as Murray can attest.
The delivery to Hoffman is most likely the FOB date when the shipper picked it up at the factory or when it arrived at the port of departure. Not all US coupes were sent to NY contrary to Andreas' archive which makes sense, many came right to Long Beach/Los Angeles (and other ports in the US) as Murray can attest.
so even if the car were a great deal for 10k, do you think that one (1) inner fender well would be worth 17% of that car's value?
jranmann
Banned
Roland's response: Hmmm....224 cars are US versions.
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 1973 BMW 3.0 CS for collectors and BMW enthusiasts - $10000 (Gainesville, GA)
Date: January 6, 2010 1:39:06 PM PST
To: [email protected]
I hope all these letters and numbers make more sense to you than they do me. Since the car was brought over from Germany, by the original owner, everything under the hood is in German. Also, the numbers were located under the hood on the passengers side. Below is how it's listed on the car:
Fahrgest.nr.2240956 (I think this is the VIN, but it came back as a 1987-1993 BMW when I ran the number myself on one site and came up as unable to be located when I did it on another.)
1750
900
Zul.gog.gew.kg.17.50
Zul.acuslas voro kg.900
hint.kg.900
Again, these numbers really don't make any sense to me, so hopefully you'll figure it out. They do have online decoders, but like I said, it came up as the wrong make and model when I did it myself.
Here are the websites I used: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do and http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi. I got them from the following website: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256376.
Let me know if you need anything else from me!
Roland
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 1973 BMW 3.0 CS for collectors and BMW enthusiasts - $10000 (Gainesville, GA)
Date: January 6, 2010 1:39:06 PM PST
To: [email protected]
I hope all these letters and numbers make more sense to you than they do me. Since the car was brought over from Germany, by the original owner, everything under the hood is in German. Also, the numbers were located under the hood on the passengers side. Below is how it's listed on the car:
Fahrgest.nr.2240956 (I think this is the VIN, but it came back as a 1987-1993 BMW when I ran the number myself on one site and came up as unable to be located when I did it on another.)
1750
900
Zul.gog.gew.kg.17.50
Zul.acuslas voro kg.900
hint.kg.900
Again, these numbers really don't make any sense to me, so hopefully you'll figure it out. They do have online decoders, but like I said, it came up as the wrong make and model when I did it myself.
Here are the websites I used: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do and http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi. I got them from the following website: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256376.
Let me know if you need anything else from me!
Roland
bernardo
Member
black with tan interior?......mmmmh sounds familiar.....beautiful...just like my car.
but more expensive than mine...unbeliveable....and mine is running good I was told (I hope) I still have not got it yet...it will arrive to the border any minute now.......
but again...far, bad and old picture, people just cant tell the real condition.....leaves everything to chance in this forum.....no real interest in selling I would rather say
but more expensive than mine...unbeliveable....and mine is running good I was told (I hope) I still have not got it yet...it will arrive to the border any minute now.......
but again...far, bad and old picture, people just cant tell the real condition.....leaves everything to chance in this forum.....no real interest in selling I would rather say