Victor Gauntlett's CSL with leather seats and power sunroof

CSL 1973

CSL 1973

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The rumours says that the UK celebrity Victor Gauntlett ordered his Verona red CSL 2285198 with comfortable CSi leather seats and power sunroof. This "individual" CSL was up for sale at H&H Classic Auctions in October 2006 but was not sold.

http://www.motorbase.com/auctionlot/by-id/1746040126/

Anyone living in UK who knows more about this car.

Cheers
 
Yes it is one of the 500 RHD CSLs for the UK and Australian market. Most of them had the city package and obviously some of them were special custom orders with CSi seats and sunroof etc. If I remember correctly, I have seen pictures of the car and it is in Verona red with black CSL stripes, black leather CSi seats, black Petri steering wheel and with race locks for the hood. I think it is still a UK owner after Gauntlett.

The interesting thing is that the 500 RHD CSLs were produced more or less in a batch and then moved from Germany to a storage in Belgium meanwhile waiting for a buyer.

This Gauntlett CSL was most likely taken directly from the factory as it was a special "individual" order.

Someone who has seen this special CSL in UK?

Cheers
 
First off I had to look up who Victor Gauntlett was...

Second I am weary of phrases in car sales ads like:
"has apparently"

"Said to have covered less than 60,000 miles"

"a figure reputedly substantiated"

These are red flags. If the seller cannot firmly and convincing me relay to me the accurate mileage and history of an automobile then I will not buy that automobile.
 
Yes, as already "confirmed" the VIN is within the range of the 500 RHD cars and would have beeen built late 1972. Given that BMW Concessionaires GB had the 500 cars built to a specific City Pack specification and that they were effectively produced in a single run batch (as already written) one can only speculate on how/when the sun roof was added - special factory order with BMW agreeing to pull the car from the batch? Bear in mind that the build of the coupes was subcontracted to Kharmann who "virtually" hand built each one so with VG's undoubted status at the time I would assume it to have been possible; someone somewhere will have a record, perhaps. The seats could have been a UK "upgrade" as relatively easy, if not changed with the orginal build; a number of small minor local changes were made for various customers.

There is no mention of an optional sunroof in the UK sales launch, early October 1972 - it very clearly sets out the (fixed) "chosen" City Pack specification. Announced plans at the time were to sell all 500 plus 500 automatic models (CSI) within the next 12 months - achieved as I understand it.

This car was known to the UK BMW CC in the late '80s early '90s, not Victor Gauntlett and no idea who has owned it since.

A slightly out of place comment against a couple of the for sale threads discussing (!!!) prices - RHD CSLs formed the minority of builds; ie, of the circa 1,256 CLs built, the RHD cars formed 50% of the 1,000 required homologation batch. The remainder are the pre-injection carburettor run and the post homologation special order cars produced into '75. I don't know if any of these were RHD but I've not seen anything to indicate that any were, to the contrary most of the "evidence" suggests all were likely to be LHD. Given the climate here in the UK and the treatment many of the cars received I would be surprised if the survivors now form more than a small minority of the total. But, big but, they were specified to City Pack so are not in the eyes of many true lightweights even if stripped back to the basic specification - relatively easy, ignoring the RHD configuration!
 
Question as to Karmann hand building--

Was wondering if Karmann did the final hand assembly of that the batch of CSL's indicated--as I've always been of the understanding that Karmann built all the E-9 bodies.

Then shipped them to Munich for the final paint, mechanical, interior and trim assembly--is your statement correct and my understanding flawed?
 
Blumax, my wording was a bit "loose"; when I wrote "... the coupes ..." I meant all coupes, as in E9s. I should have left out the word "the" so back to school on grammar! I agree with your understanding but was trying to avoid getting too detailed on what was intended to be a brief comment - no hiding on this forum.

For me it's pure speculation that special orders could be inserted within the homologation batch run if the right strings were pulled ... my understanding is that to an extent it was that sort of operation at the time - I hope someone out there knows the definitive answer.
 
Hi Tim.

The first registration date in UK, for the ex VG CSL (2285198) with sun roof, was 16/3 1973. It would be interesting to know if this CSL has the sun roof registered in the technical data/registration documents.

I don't think DVLA in Swansea can provide such details but there might be other ways to obtain technical data about cars registered in UK if you have the UK registration number and/or the VIN.

Are you aware about any ways how to check this?

Cheers
 
CSL '73 hi, I doubt that the DVLA will have such details - my registration certificate shows "colour unstated", body type "saloon", and the standard CSi engine capacity; none critical but not helpful. You can do a vehicle enquiry online if you have the UK registration number, they don't offer a search by VIN nor show it in the result.

BMW Mobile Tradition : BMW Konzernarchiv [mailto:[email protected]] : may have the answer for you. They provide a certificate (for a small fee) covering the VINs, type, build colour, build date and delivery date to the first purchaser - in my case built early Nov 1972, supplied to BMW Concessionaires GB Dec 1972. So, built 11/1972 but first registered Sep 1973! My VIN is 2285272 so logically the ex VG CSL was built probably Oct 1972 or possibly even Sep 1972. They may want to know your relationship to the vehicle as they require a copy of the registration certificate (equivalent or proof of ownership) for issuing their certificate.

Given that BMW's records are apparently a little "thin" that far back, even Mobile Tradition may not have the sunroof information. If the original BMW sales dealer is known, and still exists, they might be able to help but that's a long shot. Can't think of anything else.

Good luck searching.
 
Many thx for the info. Based on the UK registration number, I made an online enquire for this CSL in question and the only data DVLA displays is; First registration date 16/3 1973, Vehicule colour Red, 3003 cc and year of manufacture 1972.

Most likely the ex VG CSL was a special order individually made for him. It has been mentioned in previous posts, that there were possibilities for celebrities or people with the right "connections" to order a various range of options (including sun roof) for their CSL. For instance, the soccer player Uli Höness (Bayern München) also placed a special order for his CSL (personally designed stripes and special Wheels, Gr. 4 Fender flares etc).

In relation to how many CSL cars may have survived; due to my knowledge, below the number of "surviving" CSL cars that have been traced (nr of built cars in bracket):

2210-2211-2212... carb LHD 43 (169)
2285... RHD 282 (500)
2275... LHD 154 (429)
2275... Bat v1 62 (110)
4355... Bat v2 34 (57)

At least four RHD CSLs are known as equipped with BMW sun roof but only one 2275... CSL. Unconfirmed sources says that a second Polaris 2275... (city pack) with sun roof might exist in USA.

Cheers
 
CSL '73, thanks for those numbers. Sorry about the delayed follow-up after a long weekend offline ... How old is this information and what was the source please? Back in the nineties the UK BMW CC CSL Register was tracking cars and at the time some 75% of the RHD cars had owners names tagged and perhpas some 25% of the LHD cars. That is all out of date now, the Register "died" but is now being resurrected and I'm helping the new Register editor with background material. If you, or anyone else can help, with pointers to source information I will be very grateful.

Mark (Nyland), I think you might have some pointers?

If some of this is more manageable via e-mail please use [email protected] others may prefer this to be conducted in the open!

I would emphasise that we are simply trying to identify cars that are still "alive" versus broken, put an owner's name to a car's VIN and for those with a UK interest, make contact if the owner is interested. We don't want car registration details or publish data that could be used to ID the precise whereabouts of a car.
 
Hey Tim,

who is organising the resurrection? I was keeping a register of RHD csl's but between laptops breaking etc I managed to lose it. I have a new one but it hasnt got much in it.

Regards,

Rohan
 
Rohan, the register is more in name than actuality at this stage. John Castle has taken on the E9 sub-Register within the GB BMW CC Coupe Register ... first communication came out last week so very early days. He's starting with a newsletter mainly focusing on maintenance tips and then any material he can collect in from other members. A small amount of funding has been committed by the Car Club, I would expect small to mean very small given the current climate.

I've committed to help John behind the scenes and one item has been re-capturing the CSL Register (ie, the list) last updated in the early nineties - now 50% rekeyed into Excel with updates added but so far relatively few. Back then there were many active contacts, mirrored now by this forum but then focussed 99% on CSLs. My first objective is simply to capture as much info the easy way before getting proactive ... back then without the internet people were fairly laid back about linking VINs and names, now people are more wary and understandable too so not sure how successful this will be. Plus, so many cars have either fallen by the wayside, wrecked or broken, or simply tucked away for the future (whatever that may be).

If you've got anything that will help and are happy to pass it on I'll be very grateful - see e-mail ID further back on this thread. I'm happy to answer individual queries if I have the answer but at this stage publication of the data would be meaningless in as much as 95% of it is over a decade old.

We shall see where this goes.
 
Tim and Rohan,

Hope you guys are able to get a (RHD) CSL registry working.
Although i'm not based there, mine was first registred in UK.
Looking forward to the body count...
 
Hi Tim!

In relation to previous post about CSL register, the CSL list I have contains information about all CSL types (2210-2211-2212, 2285, 2275, 4355 and race versions). Info stored is VIN, colour, city pack (yes/no), bat kit (yes/no), owner, country and comments (such 5 speed gearbox, 3.5 L engine etc). In addition I have a folder with photos of many of the CSLs in the list.

The info in the CSL list is based on different European CSL registers, info from BMW mobile tradition (city packs etc), classified CSL adds and articles worldwide since 1971, Car auctions, personal knowledge (meetings, Car clubs etc).

Of course the register cannot be 100% up to date as cars change owners etc. But I think it gives a pretty good overview of today's status.

Cheers
 
RohJay, thanks for your update, I'll add it in.

CSL '73, hi, I suspect your information is probably more up to date than mine as I only recently picked this up after many years of "absence" and no updates from anyone else. In addition, it never had the level of detail you have, it was only ever VIN + name.

I can make the time to do some research, are you happy to pass over a copy of what you have and any country register contacts etc? I'm very happy to pass over my current information but it's minimal at the moment as I was focused on capturing the old data into a spreadsheet first ... may only be of interest to a few but does provide a baseline for what it's worth.

I was doing this solely for the GB BMW CC but if plaigarising other peoples' work it should be open to at least those, and the rest of the forum on an agreed basis.

Rohan, same request/offer applies to you.

I'm not sure how this data can be made available to forum members sensibly; anyone any ideas please? Could this be tacked into a new forum category? I see that M/S is offering a file share service ... FOC at the moment but I assume one must be a registered MS Office user and possibly a charge may be levied once they reach a critical mass but could be a possible vehicle. Or just hold it amongst a few people as a reference base for others to request against??? Thoughts on a postage stamp please.
 
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