What engine fits in an E9 engine bay?

[germanbodyman]

Hi all
What are my options on putting a different BMW engine in an E9 other than the usual M30? Is it possible to use the V8 engine from an E39 5 series with the 6 speed or automatic tranny in it? I know this would involve a lot of work making everything fit and function. Regarding the suspension I would go with something more modern, possible a E36 or E46 or even E39 suspension. Don 't worry to much about the fabrication part, I work in the high end collision industry for almost 20 years, so I know what I will be doing.
I am just wondering if anybody ever seen, heard or actually did a diffent engine swap on an E9.Any advise is appreciated


Martin

 

[bert35csi]

There was a guy in Germany who installed the E39 M5 V8 drivetrain and suspension components into an E24 recently. Looked like a factory installation. It was featured in a magazine article in the past few months, though I cannot quite remember the name of the magazine. Try googling it.

Bert
72 3.5 CSi
88 M6

 

[chicane]

Hi all
What are my options on putting a different BMW engine in an E9 other than the usual M30? Is it possible to use the V8 engine from an E39 5 series with the 6 speed or automatic tranny in it? I know this would involve a lot of work making everything fit and function. Regarding the suspension I would go with something more modern, possible a E36 or E46 or even E39 suspension. Don 't worry to much about the fabrication part, I work in the high end collision industry for almost 20 years, so I know what I will be doing.
I am just wondering if anybody ever seen, heard or actually did a diffent engine swap on an E9.Any advise is appreciated


Martin

Are you kidding me? Yeah that's what you want to do is put a monster 8 in a 40 year old chassis. The chassis flex would eventually destroy the body of your E9.

 

[x_atlas0]

The transmission tunnel will likely be the biggest hurdle, considering the V8 bellhousings are substantially wider than their straight 6 sounterparts. A reasonable approximation of this facet of the problem can be found at http://www.bmwe28v8.org/

Chicane is, however, correct in that the chassis would have significant issue with that much torque. You would have to reinforce it, either by vastly improving the seam welds or a roll cage and a lot of braces.

Additionally, a S62 typically goes for 10k+ by itself. Throw in the electronics and you are looking at 20k all told. Then there's the EWS to deal with and the chassis computer spoofing. You would have better luck making it run on Motec. I think only Motec and possibly Autronic can currently run the stepless bi-VANOS in the S62.

 

[roadsterfan]

How about going to a more powerful M30, like the 745 turbo model in the late eighties. At least, it should be a direct bolt-in.......

 

[germanbodyman]

Hi all
What are my options on putting a different BMW engine in an E9 other than the usual M30? Is it possible to use the V8 engine from an E39 5 series with the 6 speed or automatic tranny in it? I know this would involve a lot of work making everything fit and function. Regarding the suspension I would go with something more modern, possible a E36 or E46 or even E39 suspension. Don 't worry to much about the fabrication part, I work in the high end collision industry for almost 20 years, so I know what I will be doing.
I am just wondering if anybody ever seen, heard or actually did a diffent engine swap on an E9.Any advise is appreciated


Martin

Are you kidding me? Yeah that's what you want to do is put a monster 8 in a 40 year old chassis. The chassis flex would eventually destroy the body of your E9.

Honestly I am not to worried about the chassis flex in the E9. The vehicle is getting a full restoration an the rotisserie for rust repairs and on the chassis table to get reinforcements installed. The idea is to have the outer shell of an E9 and maybe the same size floor pan but all the frame work is getting replaced or heavily reinforced.
In the early/mid 90's I was involved in the built of a 2002 with an M3 engine out of an DTM spec M3 Touringcar. This Schnitzer engine had aprox. 370 HP, everybody told us at the time the car would not be able to withstand the power. Well, they were so wrong. It took about 2 years to built this car with all the re-engineering that was involved. Unfortunately the vehicle had a major collision during a test day on a racetrack that it was beyond any repair. FYI the cause of the accident was another team that had blown up there engine and was dumping all its oil on the track.
If I would have split up with my business partner in good terms (which is not the case), I could show you guys some pics of it.

Martin

 

[x_atlas0]

Honestly I am not to worried about the chassis flex in the E9. The vehicle is getting a full restoration an the rotisserie for rust repairs and on the chassis table to get reinforcements installed. The idea is to have the outer shell of an E9 and maybe the same size floor pan but all the frame work is getting replaced or heavily reinforced.
In the early/mid 90's I was involved in the built of a 2002 with an M3 engine out of an DTM spec M3 Touringcar. This Schnitzer engine had aprox. 370 HP, everybody told us at the time the car would not be able to withstand the power. Well, they were so wrong. It took about 2 years to built this car with all the re-engineering that was involved. Unfortunately the vehicle had a major collision during a test day on a racetrack that it was beyond any repair. FYI the cause of the accident was another team that had blown up there engine and was dumping all its oil on the track.
If I would have split up with my business partner in good terms (which is not the case), I could show you guys some pics of it.

Martin

That 2002 sounds like quite the beastie. I bet it would have been a hoot and a half to drive.

 

[velocewest]

Anything is possible, just depends how deep your pockets are, how strong your will is, and what skills you have.

Skip the 745i turbo. The technology is too old, the parts for the ancillaries are too expensive. You can turbo any M30 and get 300+ HP at the rear wheels for under $4,000 using the TCD setup. More power desired? Sure, just add more money.

If you really want a V8, skip BMW's offerings. A GM LS6 beats the HP/dollar ratio of BMW's V8's any day. The 6 speed Getrag used on that engine is cheaper when it starts out in a GM car too.

I'm not sure changing the suspension too much is worth the trouble. Go with coilovers on the front for the adjustability of damping and camber. Otherwise, the front is a sound setup. On the rear, you could put an e30 or e28 subframe in there to open up your options for final drive units. The sideloaders are getting too old to do much with, with the subframe swap you could go with a large case e28 diff with a Quaife for strength.

The biggest challenge with an e9 is getting enough tire under the car to put the power on the ground, and the aforementioned strength and integrity issues with the shell. Fire up the welder...

 

[chicane]

Honestly I am not to worried about the chassis flex in the E9. The vehicle is getting a full restoration an the rotisserie for rust repairs and on the chassis table to get reinforcements installed.

I was getting ready to say, chassis reinforcements are a must if you are going to be adding that kind of torque. People never take that into consideration. Metal, in a cars chassis, flexes over time and weakens. And it is doubly important with the corrosion problems that these cars have.

 

[Sticky]

Sorry to bump an old thread but I wanted to do some brainstorming and was hoping you guys could help.

Would an S85 V10 physically fit the E9 engine bay? All other issues aside.

 

[Phemisg]

At some point brake booster and steering column/box will get in the way. As mentioned below, BMW V-8s have been not always been reliable and cheap to fix. Not sure about V-10 but it seems like an expensive way to get more BHP. Euro tuners have stuffed it into various 3 series models. Check out http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418262 to see what a lump you are contemplating. Several Chev engines have gone into E12s, and usual comment is "why?". Still, if you want shock and awe when you open the hood, a 350 crate motor is the easist path in terms of electronics and plumbing.

Bill Arnold funs an indie BMW shop north of SF - he put M3 motor in Bavaria with E28 underpinings to do TARGA Newfoundland. I had a ride around Infineon track and it was FAST. Big advantage of using six is weight - I don't know actual weights of M6 vs V10, but I have to think you'd end up with a very front-heavy car.

 

[Bill Riblett]

To my mind, the only practical way to do one of these late model conversions is to take your E9 and cut out the entire chassis.

Then take your donor late model car and remove the entire body. Save all of the wiring harness. This may be the most important step as everything is connected electronically in "modern" BMWs. Everything gets more and more complicated the newer the car you are working with. Shorten and narrow the late model chassis to fit the E9 body.

Then you have to figure out what you are going to do for an interior, ETC.

Take lots of pictures!

Terry Sayther in Austin Texas did this with a 2002 body on an E36 chassis. Unfortunately, the link I have describing it no longer works.