What Would You Do? Luigi and the FIA

lafngrvy

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We started to look into getting FIA certification for Luigi so that I could take him back to Europe and do some races at SPA, Monza, Classic Le Mans, etc. But we are running into some issues as noted below in an email from Racecraft's Jim Froula:

Steve,
So I think I have a good handle on these FIA rules now. Essentially, they changed the rules from 1975 to 1976 and the car is sort of caught in the middle. In 1975 they listed a max of 210cm for overall width with no restriction on amount of fender extension or style as long as they were homologated and under the 210cm total max width. Your car currently measures 180cm so it's well within those limits for 1975, BUT has the wrong style flare for 1975. The correct homologated flares are the full length style flares that the car had when we got it.

In 1976 the rules changed to say that any extensions were required to be a max of 5cm additional width (per side) and a max of 10cm tall for shape over the stock width. They canceled the full length homologated flare and these new limits and that's how the later style flare shape came to be. The stock width of a CSL including the fender trim extensions is listed at 143cm in front and 146cm in the rear which makes for a max width of 153 front and 156 rear to meet 1976 specs.

When you look at this link which is CSL's thru the 70's you can see all of them 1975 and earlier have the full length flares and then sure enough they all changed in 1976 to the rounded style flares.
https://www.racingsportscars.com/type/photo/BMW/3.0 CSL.html?cat=4&page=2

So here's how we got to where we currently are. The car came to us basically in pre-1976 spec in both wheel and fender width. We updated the car to the post 1976 style flare but fit them to the existing pre-1976 wheels which made them wider than they really should be for 1976 spec. To get the car to where it needs to be for FIA homologation there are two roads possible:

1. First option is to narrow up the existing flares to meet the 1976 rules as well as narrow up the wheels to fit them. The wheels can be fixed with new wheel halfs from BBS, obviously the body works would need to be done first so we know exactly how wide they can be. Technically for 1976 they also took away the dry sump oil system and 5 speed transmission options, among other things. While we may be able to sneak both of those details through and get certified, I would hate to get all the way to France and have them turn us away because there is a 5 speed in the car instead of a 4 speed or a dry sump oil system instead of wet sump. So I guess both a transmission and removing the dry sump system are technically required on top of the bodywork and wheel changes.

2. Second option is to put the full length style flares back on it and re-submit it as a 1975 spec car. Everything else about the car would stay the same (wheels, transmission, dry sump, etc.).

In either case 1 or 2 we would need to update the cage to current FIA specs which is a full re-do. Sort of an odd caught in the middle sort of conundrum on what to do. Obviously its most significant point in time would probably be 1976 when it won the ETCC champiosnhip, but making it 100% correct will take significant changes. We would need to get started right away and it will take a few months to complete so we would need to take it off the schedule until at least Portland in July.

My desire is to keep the car as original as possible which includes the roll cage that is in the car (factory motorsport), the 5 speed trans, and the dry-sump system.

Would love to hear from the community on this.
 

Gransin

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How badly do you want it FIA certificated and go racing in Europe? ;)
Personally, I would keep racing it in the US, as is.
 

tferrer

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What a crock. Can you get some kind of dispensation on that requirement? There's no lack of evidence the car raced in period with and won in 76. I'd enjoy it and run it like it is in the US and see what happens to the rules over the next 2-3 years. Plus all the work undoing what you just did seems terrible... aside from the cost.

That'll also give you the time to work on the FIA guys over dinner and several bottles of wine to plead your case...

My 2 cents
 

Markos

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My opinion:

If you are eager to race in europe, I would definitely go with option #1. The transmission is a bummer. I'm guessing that you will have to adapt your driving style and possibly your power band?
 

Strato102

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Give yourself a week or two with the mindset that the car will go as is. Talk to Scott Hughes about his experience with his car. Talk to Peter Auto and plead your case. Homecoming of a famous car. Good luck!
 

mbmw

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Do they have a "IMSA" spec. class where you could run your car? IMSA allowed wider fenders in the 80's then FIA.
 

craterface

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Yes, talk to Peter Auto directly. You can probably do some cool events like the Modena Cento Ore (although I would start in the back, since the front running guys are crazy and like to run into people with their disposable replica Escorts and replica 911 RSRs) without making any changes, although I bet an FIA approved roll cage is a must. I can get you in touch with an Italian who chaperoned my Alfa for the Modena Cento Ore and you could pick his brain if you wish. PM me. He knows Patrick Peter well. The Tour Auto seems awesome too. Scott
 

lafngrvy

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Helpful suggestions and thoughtful advice. Thank you all. I'll post again later when we figure out what we will do.

Hope to meet several of you at Sonoma!
 

frogisland

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Interesting problem. If you really want to race in Europe....in some of the events..... you have to comply with the requirements, and therefore build it to the original European specs.

Re the HTP, by the sound of it your arches are incorrect (width) for the year spec you want your car built to. Remedy this, put in the correct (FIA) cage (i'm still building mine!!! but had to swap out a complete cage because the main roll hoop was not the correct diameter).

I don't think there is much chance to 'sneak' the dry sump system and gearbox through. I know people whom have had their cars rejected for much smaller things, including on an e9, for example, the wrong bellhousing (he had used the 1975 homologated type but had fitted one with sensor pickup (which is actually slightly later)).

The FIA/HTP has been tightening up over the last few years, and with my limited experience i am concerned that my cars may (the e9 in particular) have 'things' that might have been sneaked through in the past, but likely not now. My e12, whilst a little simpler, also has areas of concern...but until i apply i don't find out! The same car i noted above, also had the raised floor rejected ("Floor modification for exhaust not permitted"); a point that will be brought up on another car that will be seeking a HTP soon (i'll pm the builder details...it would be worthwhilst you having a general discussion with this person).

So, in short, change the outer barrels, reduce the width of the arches, new cage, 4-speed, remove dry sump. The latter two could be returned to the car when it comes back stateside. What else could it fail on? Brakes correct? Disc diameter/thickness, dampers (non-adjustable) ???

If you ever come to sell the car, surely it will have more value with the papers (and thus 'correct' spec), open up a larger market.

Incidentally, not all cars racing at some of these events have a HTP. Better to check out with whom and where you can race before jumping in ;)

Another option is to find another car/owner and share some driving.
 

redfishman

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Steve,
What did you decide to do? As you know I have two Luigi clones in UFO livery and got them both through HTP certification. I have molds for the GP2 arches if you need them.

Clarke

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