Which one would you buy (Alpina or a 98point original)?

JFENG

JFENG

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I have found 2 very nice E9's and am struggling on which one to get.

#1: 1972 3.0CS: no sunroof, 4spd, working AC, arguably a 95-98 point original car, Polaris over blue leather
#2: 1973 3.0CSi (grey market): no sunroof, 4spd, working AC, a true Alpina car (wheels, differential, suspension, steering wheel, Alpina numbered badge). Condition excellent, but as a regularly driven car so it's bound to have a few stone chips and dirt on the under-chassis.

Both cars are maintained by the same well known BMW shop. Both have had proper rust repairs and very good repaints. Both are fully mechanically sorted out and well maintained.

Price wise, they're essentially the same price.

Either way, I'll put in a Getrag 265 and that's it.

As a driver, clearly the Alpina is the right choice.

As an investment, which one would you guys recommend?

John
 
After you decide which to get, can you PM me the contact info, I am looking for another coupe and haven't been able to find one suitable as of yet. Both sound very nice. Thanks.
 
price?

if you are willing to post the asking prices for these cars i think that would be helpful. not sure why everyone is so hesitant to post this info. we will all benefit from knowing current pricing trends.
ive been looking for a coupe now for most of a year, here is my 2 cents on values (for cs and csi):
- $60k+:concourse level cars, all orig or top qual mods. some cars are significantly above $60k, which imo, the market will not bear. seems like $60k, in this economy, ought to buy you a near-perfect car.
- $50k: really great car, fully restored, just below concourse, a SUPER nice driver, either all orig or if not should include (IMO) the good mods (3.5L, 5 speed, aplina's etc).
- $40k: great car, 90% restored, but a car we would likely have to spend a little money on to be our dream car.
- $30k: really good car, some restoration work done, but more needed.

i dont have much experience below that, as all my searches have been for fully restored cars.

comments welcome.

alanmcg
 
I think most would jump at an Alpina car in a heart beat. Very rare and it's a CSi to boot. It all depends on what you can afford.
 
Pricing

The 98 point car is the opinion of a well known BMW restoration shop. I've not see it myself so it might not be as fabulous as the shop said. The price is just under $20k

The Alpina is described by the same shop as a 90-95point car. It's owner is asking $20k

I'll be happy to post pics and contact info for the one I don't buy.

John
 
bfeng said:
I have found 2 very nice E9's and am struggling on which one to get.

#1: 1972 3.0CS: no sunroof, 4spd, working AC, arguably a 95-98 point original car, Polaris over blue leather
#2: 1973 3.0CSi (grey market): no sunroof, 4spd, working AC, a true Alpina car

John
Click to expand...

i.r.: #2 a "73 grey market csi is interesting...I imported my '72CSi (4spd, no AC, but has sunroof) years ago and the CA registration process gave it a '73 model year. So, what is the Build date?? It's an Alpina

Why I ask is that years ago I was given information (I believe from Hardy & Beck) that Build year with head casting year of '72 was desired due to the head being the strongest of the early (pre-80's) castings.

Can anyone add value to this perception??

If the '72 heads are best and the CSi is a real '72...I'd go CSi.
Jon
 
20k?

$20k for a 98 pt car sounds like a steal to me - pls pm me as soon as you decide. what color is the alpina car?
 
E9 Alpinas didnt have number badges. Most likely didnt have a/c or a 4 spd either. There are many factors that make an Alpina E9 a true "Alpina." All that stuff doesnt make it authentic. What makes it authentic is paperwork matching the engine and chasis numbers. If you can get that info, for 20K if its real, is a steal and a far better long term investment. If you send me details of the car I can help you authenticate it.
 
Alpina versus 3.0CS

Guys,
I agree with all of you that these prices sound too good, and that usually means... they are too good to be true.

The thing that's intriguing is that the shop that maintains these cars is one of a handful of oldie and goodie type shops where on any given week you would see a couple of tii's, some senior sixes (Bav's and E9's), maybe a Mercedes pagoda SL, as well as late model BMW's. So when the owner says the 73 3.0CS is close to a 98pt car I believe him.

Alpina: again, I have no reason to believe the shop or the owner is anything but honest. And Alpina cars could be had with a wide range of modifications back in the '70's, right? I'm mean, you could have Alpina customize to the max or just do a few sensible upgrades like this CSi (suspension, LSD with cooler, wheels, and some interior trim).

The attraction of the '73 is that the owner has never spared any expense to maintain it as well as possible (some rich guy). It would be so fun to drop a 3.5l with triple DCOEs and 5spd in it and go tii hunting. But, I agree with all of you that the Alpina, if it's a "real" one is the more interesting car.

So, how do you tell if one is or isn't a real Alpina? Does Alpina maintain a registry that one can check using VIN's?

Well, I'll get a bunch of pictures and scrutinize these cars this weekend, and the post a report with contact info. Even the '72 3.0CSA sounds like a good car if the price comes down a little bit.

John
 
More info on the Alpina

I got some photos from the owner. It looks like it's in great shape. But, it also doesn't look like a 'real' Alpina, but rather a car that has an assortment of Alpina upgrades. E.g. it's not a B2. That's too bad.

So, now the choice between the pristine 3.0CS and the really clean, upgraded CSi becomes more difficult.

John
 
My vote is for the Alpina, real or not, personally. I'd hate to have a car so nice that I would never drive it. I'll take the driver with all of the ultra rare hot rod parts.
 
I would definitly buy the Alpina and enjoy driving it. I would also buy the 98-pt car and flip it. $20k for a 98-pt car is just so so cheap. My only concern is if the deal is being done through a reputable shop that is very familiar with classic BMW's why is he not buying these cars at bargain basement prices and secondly why is he not notifying the sellers of the true value of their cars?
 
Here's what I think

These coupes I'm seeing this weekend are NOT bargain basement prices!

I'll bet the sellers "98pt" or "excellent" are actually #2+ cars (very clean, all working, super nice driver, but...). Most of you guys probably far over-rate the condition of your cars (me too).

The current price guides I looked at say a #2 car is worth between $12.6k and $20k,
and a #1 car is worth between $26k and $40k.

A #2 car means EVERYTHING is there, and in correct working order. Paint and finishes are all clearly used yet nearly new. Nothing can be worn down or worn out, and it should be fully detailed. How many of you can say that's actually true about your E9's. Look at your engine bay. Is it fully detailed?, How about your undercarriage? Do you have any oil leaks? Any chips and nicks in the paint? Are there any scuffs, scratches or pitting on any chrome? Are you sure your car isn't actually a #3 car? See the pic of my Sunbeam. That's NOT a #1 interior, despite spending $500 on a concours steering wheel and having perfect Connolly leather and new Wilton wool carpets. Why, one of the door escutcheons is a 1/4" spot where the chrome is flaking and the heater box lettering doesn't look brand new.

If you start with a #2 car and want to make it a #1 car, it can easily cost $15k to $20k in parts and labor!

Why? Because you'll be
(1) removing the entire powertrain, suspension, glass, interior
(2) replacing most of the rubber
(3) Cleaning everything visible
(4) Applying new finishes (spray or powder coat) to most of the suspension, under body, and under hood areas.
(5) Refinishing the interior to as-new condition,
(6) fixing ALL chips/nicks/scratches,
(7) Replacing ALL chrome that is not in as-new condition,
(8) Replacing ALL hardware that shows noticeable wear/age.

I have a friend that at one time had a #1 quality, national 100pt Jaguar XK120. He's a very wealthy man and it took years and years of work to get it that good. And yet ... it's no longer a #1+ car because he drives it regularly and it's got a handful of tiny stone chips in the front and in the wheel wells. It's only a #1


And, the economy is pretty depressed wrt discretionary income. The value of my other classic cars (and my house) are both down 20% ... easily. That's true for E9's as well.
 

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I understand. I was basing my opinion on a true 98-pt car which I would think would be worth closer to $40k but you are right in your evaluation.
 
Guys I can't believe your actually having this conversation..Alpina vs Stock E9 !

The last Alpina car that this forum saw for sale was Carey Lida's former Alpina..being sold By Canepa Design, asking price was $500.000. Too even "think" that such a car exists at that price !
 
G said:
Guys I can't believe your actually having this conversation..Alpina vs Stock E9 !

The last Alpina car that this forum saw for sale was Carey Lida's former Alpina..being sold By Canepa Design, asking price was $500.000. Too even "think" that such a car exists at that price !
Click to expand...

There is a difference between an Alpina CSL and an Alpina CS, or CSI
Theres also a difference between a B2 car and a B2-S. These cars are also only worth a fraction of their value if they're not documented correctly.

As far as value the B2-S CSL's are at the top.
 
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