Wich kind of transmission oil for automatic gearbox ?

remydedez

Well-Known Member
Messages
94
Reaction score
2
Location
Lyon, FRANCE
hi everyone,

i need to change fluid of my automatic transmission and i would like to know which kind of oil i need to buy to replace it ? thanks
 
hi everyone,

i need to change fluid of my automatic transmission and i would like to know which kind of oil i need to buy to replace it ? thanks

EDIT!
As noted by Luis (below) the owner's manual apparently favors owners of BorgWarner equipped automatic transmissions, and the fact that the recommended fluid for the type 65 transmission is Ford Type F. If you are using a ZF automatic transmission, Type A or "Dextron" is your fluid of choice.


As a last resort, there's always the owner's manual.;)
p_106.jpg


IMG_8373%20Edit_zpsmxiwngzf.jpg

IMG_8372_zps4huovylv.jpg



If you enjoy puzzles, here is an article that describes various ATF permutations. https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid
(I make no representations regarding the accuracy of the information provided by this source, although it seems fairly comprehensive. That said, I am familiar with an E3 that used Dextron III in its ZF 3HP22 transmission for decades without any issues.

Caveat emptor
.

Votre kilométrage peut varier.

Unfortunately, as a customer, it is very difficult to assess whether a particular multi-vehicle ATF is, in fact, suitable for a specific vehicle. With a currently licensed fluid, you know the fluid will work properly because it is manufactured to the precise standards of the auto company. But multi-vehicle ATFs are manufactured to whatever standards the petroleum company chooses, and representations about the ATF’s quality and applications are based on their own testing, not that of the vehicle manufacturer. Moreover, some of the advertising just isn’t accurate.

Over the years, the various formulations of Dexron and Mercon were adopted by a number of other auto manufacturers as the specification for their automatic transmissions, as well. Moreover, because Dexron and Mercon were very similar, these fluids themselves came to be regarded as interchangeable. But, this has led to a nasty habit among some oil companies of claiming that their Dexron/Mercon specification ATF can be used in a whole list of vehicles made by manufacturers other than General Motors and Ford, often for no better reason that once upon a time some model made by that company used Dexron/Mercon.

For example, Valvoline claims in its promotional materials that its DEX-MERC MaxLife ATF is "recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler, and most import vehicles." Notice they omitted the word "all." If you put MaxLife into a vehicle that is supposed to be using Dexron VI or Mercon LV, you have voided the warranty on the transmission. Moreover, this Valvoline ATF is essentially a version of the old Dexron III and Mercon ATFs. Since 1998, Chrysler has been using a synthetic ATF, either ATF+4 or ATF+5, which Chrysler specifically says is not compatible with either Dexron or Mercon. Valvoline’s ads claim this fluid is “recommended” for Chrysler products. However, Valvoline’s own “product data sheet” (the data sheet produced for every motor oil and ATF giving its specifications, which can be found on the petroleum company’s website) says that this ATF is recommended for GM vehicles, (which use Dexron III), and Ford products (using Mercon) and does not claim this fluid is recommended for any Chrysler product, much less GM products using Dexron VI or Fords requiring Mercon LV.

Other petroleum companies also make overbroad claims for their multi-vehicle ATFs. Quaker State says their Multi-Vehicle ATF is "recommended" for Chrysler, Honda/Acura, Toyota, Nissan, VW/Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Mercedes-Benz, Saturn, and Jeep vehicles and "suitable" for many more, including GM vehicles and Ford vehicles. But the product data sheet for that ATF makes no mention of BMW, Volkswagen, Audi, or Mercedes-Benz, or Saturn. Instead, the product data sheet lists primarily applications that use either Dexron III or Mercon V. Most BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and Audi vehicles don’t use Dexron/Mercon type fluids. Believing the advertising could be a very expensive mistake.

Even product data sheets can provide questionable information. Fina’s product data sheet for its "Dexron-III/Mercon ATF" says it is recommended for "all late model GM...Chrysler and most imported car...automatic transmissions, as well as, (sic) those in Ford vehicles that call for a Mercon fluid." But, again, a fluid compatible with Dexron III or Mercon is not going to be compatible with Chrysler ATF+4 or ATF+5, nor will it be proper for either Dexron VI or Ford LV vehicles. The product data sheet is simply wrong.

Whenever a multi-vehicle ATF is advertised as suitable for a long list of vehicles, be suspicious. Most of these fluids are simply versions of Dexron III or Mercon. Unless your car was delivered new with Dexron III (or an earlier version of it), Mercon, or Mercon V fluid, you should be sure to check the product data sheet of any multi-vehicle ATF before using it. If you have any doubt that Dexron III or Mercon is suitable for your car, do not take the risk of using a multi-vehicle fluid

Ford Type F—an old ATF first introduced in 1967 and used in all Ford products prior to 1977, and in some until 1980; also used in various import vehicles of the period, including Mercury Capri, Jaguar, Mazda, Saab, Toyota, and Volvo. Type F is not compatible with any other ATF. Specifically, it is not compatible with Mercon ATFs.

Ford Type H—developed for the C5 Ford automatic transmission introduced in 1981, it has been superseded by Mercon. Type H is not compatible with Type F and should not be used in a transmission requiring Type F.

Ford Type CJ—originally designed for the Ford C6 automatic transmission, it also has been superseded by Mercon and also can be replaced with Mercon V, but should never be used in a transmission requiring Type F. Dexron II is an approved alternative to Type CJ.

Mercon—introduced in 1987 and similar to Dexron II. Ford ceased licensing Mercon in 2007 and now recommends Mercon V for all transmissions that previously used Mercon. Mercon is a suitable replacement for Type H and Type CJ fluid, but not for Type F.

Mercon V—the most common Ford ATF in late model Fords, it is very much like Dexron III. Should not be used in a transmission requiring Ford Type F.

Mercon LV—the latest Ford ATF, it is factory fill in 2008 and later Fords. The LV stands for "low viscosity." It is a fully synthetic ATF. It is not compatible with earlier Mercon fluids, so it should neither be mixed with Mercon or Mercon V used to replace those fluids. It is not compatible with any other fluid, either.

Mercon SP—a version of Mercon V with an enhanced additive package.

Mercon CVT—Ford ATF specifically developed it for models with continuously variable transmissions.





Somewhat off topic is the fact that the owner's manual recommends "Dextron" ATF for E9 power steering, subject to at least one exception. Nota bene: "Esso Glide ATF Type F.".

p_107.jpg
 
Last edited:
I have used Redline racing ATF which is type F. Good chance whatever is in there is not type F. I drained, added, drove 100 miles then drained again. I did this 3 times to help clear out what ever was in there. When you drain the pan you only get a fraction of the contents out.

All the slippage and noise went away for me, pleasure to drive despite the fact that everyone seems to hate the automatic. After 25 years in Boston traffic with a standard, I am thrilled.
 
It’s different if it’s the Borg Warner or the ZF. The manual assumes a BW. The ZF was Dexron II so correct modern fill would be Redline D4. Dexron VI, although touted as superseding Dexron II, is ‘too slippery’ and not the best in the ZF 3HP22
 
Last edited:
It’s different if it’s the Borg Warner or the ZF. The manual assumes a BW. The ZF was Dexron II so correct modern fill would be Redline D4. Dexron VI, although touted as superseding Dexron II, is ‘too slippery’ and not the best in the ZF 3HP22

You make an excellent observation that is confirmed by the shop manual. (Although my shop manual (version 3.75) merely states the Approved oil grade for the "ZF3HP20" is Dextron. (Dextron II may have been too new to make it into the manual at printing time.) Curiously, the available autobooks repair manual also favors the ZF 3HP 20/22, although it does reference the BW 65. There is apparently no reference to the different fluid types.


autobooks_manual_150.jpg


Note: "add new fluid of the correct type." Bottom diagram makes a passing reference to "ZF-BW 65 transmission."


autobooks_manual_078.jpg


�ATF is the most complex of all lubricating fluids. Not only does it have to reduce friction to prevent wear like all lubricants, but it also has to allow a certain level of friction so clutch materials can engage. Since most OEMs use proprietary frictional materials, virtually every ATF is OEM-specific. In some cases, they're transmission-specific. In addition, ATFs must be compatible with all transmission components, operate at both low and high temperature extremes, and maintain constant performance for extended periods.� We don�t know much about the early fluids used in these transmissions except they contained additives similar to engine oils and used the better base oils.

GM needed a specification to give to the lubrication industry and the Type A fluid was borne in 1947. Nothing is known about this additive package.

In 1957, ten years later, GM developed the Type A Suffix A fluid specification and we know this fluid contained 16,250 ppm phosphorus, 37,500 ppm sulfur, 18,500 ppm of zinc, 130,000 ppm of Barium. This additive package was 6.2% by volume of the total fluid.

In 1959 Ford issued the M2C33-A/B specification. Nothing is known about that additive package.

In 1961, Ford issued the M2C33-C/D specification. Nothing much is know (at this time) about its additive package.

In 1967 and 1972, GM issued the Dexron specification which contained 3,500 ppm of phosphorus, 3,200 ppm of zinc, 7,500 ppm of nitrogen, 3,200 ppm of sulfur, and 4,500 ppm of Calcium. This additive package was 10.5% of the total fluid volume. The 1972 formulation specified better oxidation and Friction Modification.

In 1967, Ford introduced the M2C33- F �Type � F�� fluid which contained 12,000 ppm of phosphorus, 4,200 ppm of zinc, 4,000 ppm of Nitrogen, and 800 ppm of Barium.
This additive package was 9% of the total fluid volume.

In 1972, Ford introduced the M2C33- G fluid to the European market with slightly better oxidation specs and enhanced Friction Modification.

In 1973 GM specified another Dexron fluid called Dexron II with enhanced friction modification.

In 1974, ford introduced the M2C138-CJ specification and in 1981 the M2C166-H specification. In 1987 they introduced the first Mercon specification.

Mercon V is now specified for use for all AODE and 4R70W transmissions

GM�s Dexron III and III(G) fluids were current fills prior to 2004.

The specifications for a good Dexron III fluid generally show a 7.0 to 7.75 cSt Kinematic Viscosity (at 100 C) and a 40 C viscosity of 35 cSt. Flash points are about 367 F, pour points are -60 F, and sulfur is 2200 ppm with phosphorus being 620 ppm. The SUS viscosities are 17,500 cP at -40 F and 1,350 SUS for -10 F.

Usually you will see this statement for Dexron III/Mercon Fluids:
�The Dexron III/Mercon automotive transmission fluid (ATF) is generally recommended as a replacement fluid for automatic transmissions meeting original equipment manufacturers (O.E.M.) performance requirements for current General Motors, Ford, other domestic and imported passenger cars, vans and light trucks where DEXRON II, DEXRON II-E, DEXRON III, AND Ford/MERCON fluids are specified. The product can also be used as make-up and full fill fluid in Chrysler transmissions; however, it should be noted that Chrysler MS-7176 type fluid should be used when specified to satisfy warranty requirements. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729055
 
OK so acording to the oil required on the manual can i choose the Castrol TQF to be sure ?

https://www.racinglubes.fr/huile-ve...ciens-huile-de-boite-castrol-classic-tqf.html

It depends! What kind of automatic transmission are you servicing, Borg-Warner or ZF?

The "Classic" TQF information specifies the following:
Castrol TQF should not be used where MERCON® or DEXRON® type fluid required https://www.classic-oils.net/Castrol-TQF

Thus, if you have a BorgWarner 65 automatic transmission, this Castrol Classic "Type F" should be bien or A-OK.
If your automatic transmission is of the ZF type, this type of transmission fluid is deceoseille, as you need Dextron or Type A.


ZF
zf-3hp22-bmw-agf-gmbh-1899647912435823949.jpg


zf3hp22-bmw-automatikgetriebe-frankfurt-8303358322960289100.jpg
 
Last edited:
how can i know if it ZF of Borg-Warner ? here a picture of my carView attachment 63664

To my "untrained" eye , the "X" shape formed on the pan bottom, the location of the drain port, and the pan depth suggest that the transmission pictured is a Borg-Warner and that Type F is the winner. You still might want to confirm this info by looking at the trans identification plate.
 
Last edited:
In addition, the BW has the dipstick on the passenger side, the ZF 20/22 has it on the driver's side.
 
It's a BW. Dipstick on right side, window , pan , drain plug, wiring all identical to mine.................
 
Back
Top