Will Not Start- Help Please

[Marc-M]

Dear All

I am trying to get it to start for the first time in the car since restoration.

After a week of trying to get the car to start I have run out of ideas and look to you guys for help as I have now come to a dead end and may have to admit defeat and send it away…

At the moment I feel it would be best sent to a place in Switzerland called Dignitas where you can die with dignity!

Ok, I will start with what I have done and try to list out all.

Firstly, the engine has run a on a Dyno with all its bits on and so all the internal stuff is correctly set up and the external stuff is ok

The engine at best will cough occasionally but not fire up – I may if I’m lucky get 2 or 3 single firing of cylinders, but that is it.

When I switch the ignition on the fuel pump runs for a second.

I have changed the plugs a few times and they are always wet.

Fuel

I have checked I have the correct fuel pipes going to the right sections on the rail – flow to the main rail and return from the fuel pressure regulator.

I have checked that I have fuel pressure and the fuel pump runs when cranking the engine over.

Checked the fuel pressure from the cold start – reading 1.9 bar when cranking – the book says 2 bar – but I’m guessing being only -0.10 bar is ok for now.

I have got one of my old injectors and extended the cold start pipe and connected it to the no 1 injector wiring loom and turned over – I get intermittent spray when cranking.

When the ignition is on and I open the throttle butterfly there is a series of clicks from the injectors.

Car smells of fuel!

Distributor and plugs.

I have spark at the points and I have spark at the plugs every time I do a re set.

Timing.

Took no 1 plug out (nearest the rad) and used a compression tester to ensure I get TDC.

Static timed the car – (for the 20th time) the rotor is pointing at 9 o’clock – flywheel marking and front pully marks all line up – I must say what a hard job it is to see the front pully marks without a mirror and the fly wheel marking are just as bad – I need a telescope to see in there!

Checked the plug lead are in the correct firing order as per the numbers on the top of the head cover.

Lights go off in the garage just to double check I have spark at both the points and the plugs –



So, I have spark – I have fuel – and it will not start.

I have changed the plug leads 180 degrees and nothing – I have then put them back and tried to move them round one place on the dizzy – still nothing – I have tied all this as well as rotating the dizzy while cranking…. Still noting – well a few bits of firing.

I am assuming that the cylinder nearest to the radiator is no 1...

I have also tried a few times, trying to start it without the cold start injector plugged in.

I have changed the plugs many times as they are always wet.

I have even tried putting my new 123 dizzy on – but does not make any different – so put the old original dizzy back on –

Even resorted to spraying easy start down its lungs to see if I get a pop – nothing.

My conclusion is it must be a timing issue if I have compression – I have spark – I have injection – but possibly not in the right order – but having static timed it many times – checked the blue book and how to align the dizzy up in the correct place and checking all the plug leads are correct order and sparking – I have now run out of ideas and any help or feed back would be most appreciated – as the car is now only a few hours away once it starts from being on the road since 1980s ….


Heeeeeellllp



Regards



Marc

 

[Christopher]

Have you checked the function of the main fuel injection relay - mounted by the brake servos ?

 

[Wes]

Calling @sfdon

 

[Marc-M]

Have you checked the function of the main fuel injection relay - mounted by the brake servos ?

Hi – no I have not checked that relay as I have assumed that because all the injectors are firing fuel – I have power to relay – but will have a check tonight - thanks

 

[sfdon]

Lights off in garage- cranking engine, pushing up/down on gas pedal- do you see sparks at throttle body?

Did you disconnect and reconnect the wires to the starter?

Do you have a black wire going into a clear plastic insulator and 2 white wires and a red wire coming out down by the starter?

You must must must have a good connection at the MPS or the engine will not run. The connector will go in backwards and the engine will not run.
You must verify the numbers on the engine harness connector correlate in correct order with the numbers on the MPS.

Did you paint your engine bay?

Did you remove paint from ground tab at both ground points?

Did you check for spark at the chassis or at the valve cover?
(it’s important to know)

Key on-
Do you have B+ at the main relay on pins 30, 87a, 87b, 86?
Ground on pin 85?

I would start by replacing the main engine ground from firewall to engine.
Not just examine- replace.

The board offers a free loaner library of D-jet parts- ecu, MPS, TPS, trigger points, distributor etc.

 

[sfdon]

What is voltage at all 3 points on your coil with key on?

 

[dang]

Firstly, the engine has run a on a Dyno with all its bits on and so all the internal stuff is correctly set up and the external stuff is ok

So this points to all those things Don mentioned... external controls and connections.

 

[Marc-M]

Lights off in garage- cranking engine, pushing up/down on gas pedal- do you see sparks at throttle body?

Not looked to see sparks will see tonight- but I can tell you that when the ignition is on and when i open the throttle butterfly slowly there is a series if cracks/ snaps sounds

Did you disconnect and reconnect the wires to the starter?

I will do that - but as its a new restoration - i just put the wires on the starter

Do you have a black wire going into a clear plastic insulator and 2 white wires and a red wire coming out down by the starter?

I do remember something like that- but i will check tonight

You must must must have a good connection at the MPS or the engine will not run. The connector will go in backwards and the engine will not run.
You must verify the numbers on the engine harness connector correlate in correct order with the numbers on the MPS.

Did look at that and fortunately on the MPS the numbers are stamped on the female plug on the MPS and I checked back with a multi meter to the ECU that the correct wires go the right plugs on the MPS and to the correct numbers in the ECU

Did you paint your engine bay?

Yes

Did you remove paint from ground tab at both ground points?

I forgot to put the ground on – and when I came to put it on, I could not get my fat hands down the back of the engine – so put a new ground from engine directly to the battery

Did you check for spark at the chassis or at the valve cover?
(it’s important to know)

Yep - rested spark plug on rocker cover - and it sparked

Key on-
Do you have B+ at the main relay on pins 30, 87a, 87b, 86?
Ground on pin 85?

This i will check tonight

I would start by replacing the main engine ground from firewall to engine.
Not just examine- replace.

I will triple check my ground is good with the new lead.

The board offers a free loaner library of D-jet parts- ecu, MPS, TPS, trigger points, distributor etc.

What is voltage at all 3 points on your coil with key on?

Ok - so my old coil had 3 hard points - the new one has only 2..... + and -



Power to my coil + side is 12.57 volts... but will check tonight all other poles


Green wire to the bottom of the ballast resistor - also at the bottom a white wire going to the main relay.


Top of ballast resistor single black wire going to the + side of the coil – (this wire is twinned to the black wire with a black and violet wire)

There is another single black wire that I have also put to the + side of the coil.

Could this single black wire be on the wrong side??



Then the neg side of coil wire goes to the dizzy



Thanks for all the pointers - will try everyone tonight - but have answered the ones I can as I’m in the office at the Mow.


Again thanks

Marc

 

[HB Chris]

The single black wire for the tach needs to be on the negative side of coil, it may be in a bundle with two other wires, it is on US coupes.

 

[sfdon]

Lights off in garage- cranking engine, pushing up/down on gas pedal- do you see sparks at throttle body?

Not looked to see sparks will see tonight- but I can tell you that when the ignition is on and when i open the throttle butterfly slowly there is a series if cracks/ snaps sounds

Sparks are Sparks… the sounds you hear are the injectors clicking.
Sparks at the throttle body and a hot throttle linkage show your engine ground is only at the throttle linkage.

What is voltage at all 3 points on your coil with key on?

Ok - so my old coil had 3 hard points - the new one has only 2..... + and -

nope- + and- and the tower in the middle.




Top of ballast resistor single black wire going to the + side of the coil – (this wire is twinned to the black wire with a black and violet wire)

There is another single black wire that I have also put to the + side of the coil.

Could this single black wire be on the wrong side??


oh boy! You have shorted your coil out….

the coil negative side gets a black wire which goes to the tachometer


I have 2 Csi’s in my driveway- I will take a pic for you ….

 

[sfdon]

Let’s go……

One black wire from distributor to negative side of coil. (This triggers the coil/spark)
Two black wires from behind headlight on a single spade to negative side of coil.
(This is tach and diagnostic signal)
Black/red wire to positive side of coil and then to bottom of resister.
(This gives full power to coil from starter while cranking)
White wire to top of resister AND green wire to top of resister.
White is key on trigger to main relay and then to computer and green is battery + from ignition switch)

send me a pm if you want to chat…

 

[Marc-M]

Let’s go……

One black wire from distributor to negative side of coil. (This triggers the coil/spark)
Two black wires from behind headlight on a single spade to negative side of coil.
(This is tach and diagnostic signal)
Black/red wire to positive side of coil and then to bottom of resister.
(This gives full power to coil from starter while cranking)
White wire to top of resister AND green wire to top of resister.
White is key on trigger to main relay and then to computer and green is battery + from ignition switch)

send me a pm if you want to chat…

Let’s go……

One black wire from distributor to negative side of coil. (This triggers the coil/spark)
Two black wires from behind headlight on a single spade to negative side of coil.
(This is tach and diagnostic signal)
Black/red wire to positive side of coil and then to bottom of resister.
(This gives full power to coil from starter while cranking)
White wire to top of resister AND green wire to top of resister.
White is key on trigger to main relay and then to computer and green is battery + from ignition switch)

send me a pm if you want to chat…

Hi - my old coil does have 3 poles plus the main HT middle bit - must be a UK thing - however good news

Last night a good friend’s friend came round who knows a bit about cars and took control.

We put in the new 123 distributor – timed it – and he was confident it would start – we told him his wasting his time as we have done this many times…

He held open the throttle butterfly fully open (we did not do that – only feathered it) and cranked it over for 10 second before the engine started up a bit lumpy for a few second then it ran smooth….



It now starts on the key – but we did all this without the cold start injector power lead on.



He was in and out in less than 15 mins…….. ive spent hours on it!!!



The single black wire I was not too sure about was on the positive side – when I put it to the negative side the rev counter came to life!

So, I guess a new set of eyes and opening up the butterfly fully open is the way to bring a new engine back from the dead.



Thanks for everyone tips – I have checked everything apart from the voltage at the coil – but as its now going I guess it’s right.



Once again thanks guys.

I hope the car will be on the road in a week or two now and will post some pictures.



Marc