Window switches again

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x_atlas0

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Hello, everyone.

Before the previous board went down, I mentioned that I was having trouble with my window switches. Unfortunately, it is still not resolved. At each switch, I have a black or brown wire, a green/yellow wire, and 2 green wires coming to a single connector. I would like to know how to connect these to the switch so I can roll down the windows and not die of heat stroke while driving around. I have the early black/chrome surround switches, the bottom of which looks like this:

______
|---1-2|
|4-3---|
|-------|
|_____|

where 1, 2, 3, and 4 are the pin connectors. I already blew a fuse messing around with this, trying to make it work. If someone could look under their switches and desribe the connection to me, I would appreciate it.
 
Don't have my car here, but my recollection is the double green goes to 2.
The other two wires go to 1 and 3 in any combination. If you get them wrong just flip the switch before inserting it back.

If you suspect the switch just short double green with each one of the others
and make sure the window motor works.
 
Ok, I figured out the proper switch combination, but the windows are still not working. I have all the switches wired the exact same way, and I can hear one of the motors clicking when the switch is activated. However, before the whole console teardown, the one window that actually went down was the driver's front window. Now, it does not, and nor does the motor activate when the switch is thrown, and it is wired in exactly the same manner as the others.

All the fuses are good too.

Any hints?
 
I bought a 12v dry cell from the hardware store to check for short circuits, starting at the motor contacts and working my way toward the switches. On my CS there was a mechanical "connector" in the wires on the inside of the car near the door hinges. It had come loose.
 
Each motor is controlled by three wires, one is ground, the other two are 12V
for up and down respectively. The ground wire comes through the door wire harness. If for any reason the ground circuit that goes to the harnesses is disconnected you may have a problem where multiple windows stop working.

You can try to find out where the harness gets its ground, maybe it is in the console. Else it may be time to remove the door trim and check both ground
and 12V at the motor.

If you are willing to drive to Cupertino I'll have all your windows working by the time the beers are cool.
 
Now, it seem that the people who did an audio install in the 80s pretty much rewired the windows, too. Hence, I have been connecting duds. It gets better. I tried hooking up the switch to the new wires, and it still doesn't work. I took the door panel off, and the motor only has 2 connectons, neither of which are connected to the ground. These two wires are supposed to connect to the switch.

I picked up a lantern battery like David suggested, and I got the motor to work when connected to these new wires. However, as soon as I connected the switch to the setup, the whole thing stopped working. I think it is some kind of ground problem, as there doesn't seem to be any major voltage differnce between the power or up/down posts on the switch. I have tried the other switches, but it still doesn't work.

Any ideas? Incredibly frustrating.
 
Ok.

After tinkering with the stuff for a few more hours, it seems the previous installers, hereafter referred to as 'morons' entirely removed the 3 way terminal that goes inbetween the switch and the motor. I have figured out that the purpose of this block is to interpose a ground at the right spot, so there is a voltage difference between the two wires going to the motor. However, since this section has been removed, anybody know how I could make one? (or rather, three)
 
I snapped this pic of the section of the wiring diagram for the windows. In reviewing the rest of the diagram, it doesn't look like there's one common ground. In the diagram it looks like the motors are grounded in or near the door.

You can at least see the switch connections in this (switches are components 104, 105, 108, 109, 113, 114). Colors are SW=black, RT=red, BN=brown (all solid brown are grounds), GN=green, GE=yellow, BL=blue

[Broken External Image]:http://velocewest.googlepages.com/windowwiring.jpg
 
The 'morons' removed parts 102 and 111, leaving two wires going straight from the switches to the motors. I took the door panel off to inspect the motor, and I did not see any third connector for a ground. I would like to avoid pulling the rear interior to see how that set is grounded. Any ideas as to how to ground the system in the right place?
 
On mine the ground (earth) went to the frame of the rear windows, If you can wait for a few days I need to unwrap the parts car that still has them in and I can find out for you, unless somebody beats me to it!
Malc
 
I wonder if your car has been converted to later motors? As of the e12, the motors only have a black wire and a blue wire, the circuit is different and the ground is through the switch, IIRC.
 
Is there continuity between the motor and the switch posts??
Click to expand...

Continuity? There are three wires going into each switch, one double green which is hot (12 V), one white, and one black. The white and black go directly to the motor. Based on what I have observed, when the switch is thrown in either direction, the hot voltage goes over both switching terminals (1 and 3 from the first post) of the switch, and does not make enough of a voltage difference to turn the motor. I have connected the wires to some lantern batteries in series to simulate the proper voltage difference, and the driver's side front motor is the only one that is either free enough to actually work. I can hear the driver's rear and passenger side front window motors clicking, although on the passenger front when run through the dry cell.
 
For the wires that go directly from the switch to the motor (white and black?) are you sure there is no short circuit in them ? If you had an ohm meter you could test the electrical resistance in the circuit (between either end of each wire). I'm no mechanic, but it seems to me that since you have verified that the motors work, the next step is to check the circuit between the motor and the switches for continuity (little to no resistance).

Just a thought.
 
They are direct wires, with no intervening connections. That is the cause of the problem, actually, as there needs to be a ground somewhere, which the 'morons' removed. The ground is integral in the rear window lifters, based on the diagram, but not on the front, where the ground is interposed between the switch and the motor. This ground makes the voltage difference that drives the motor.
 
I think you are almost there:

- The post 102/111 is there for convenience, to allow the removal of the motor
by just unscrewing the wire connections. You can use electrical tape instead
to connect the wires.
- It is possible the morons elimininated the ground cable because the motor gets it
through its metallic attachement to the door. I do not recall if that is the case.
I assume you have the old motor (sardine can shape with an external gearbox
into the window regulator).
- If the motor does not spin but clicks there are two possibilities:
1) the ground path is not good, see if the motor has an unconnected ground lead and
connect it to the battery for now or any other good ground.
2) the switch resistance is too high. Diagnose by bypassing the switch, just short
the double green to each of the other wires.
If 1) and 2) combined do not get the window to work I will eat my hat in public.

If the windows ever worked after the rewire it has to be 2).
 
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