Restoration dilemma: Upgrade or original

Zibsnis

Zibsnis

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My car is under full restoration now (status of bare metal with some cuting/welding going to replace rusted places) and this is the last moment to take final decision I am struggling with - should I stick close to original when restoring or upgrade the car as there are many signs logic says to stick for original but I would upgrade myslef for more comfortable frequent drive, as the intention is to keep the car for long, but, as always, situation my be I have to sell ir and then value would matter. As this is my first classic car, have no clue how to act and would appreciate some help:

The short info on the car:
BMW 3.0CS (1972), Riviera, VIN 2230141, having info and some documents since the first owners, just a few days ago also received BMW certificate confirming that engine complies to the body and full specs that complies to actual one, no major problems have been noticed with the engine or trans as well.

Original to Upgrade things:
1) Original M30 with Zeniths and 3-speed auto trans to M30B35 with FI and manual 5-speed getrag;
2) Riviera to Black metallic;
3) White original to Brown coniac leather interior;
4) Manual front windows to automatic ones;
5) Manual sunroof to automatic one;
6) Original 14" wheels to BBS RC 17";
7) New wiring and vintage look audio system.

So, the main question is - if I just take all the costs upgrade would require, will it pay off for the value, or the investments | value ratio would be better if I stick to the original one, leaving hotrod idea for some other car in the future (hope, this is not my last E9 :-) that would miss a lot of original state mentioned.

Thanks in advance for sharing of your knowledge!
 

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I am a semi-originalist. My 74 Polaris Euro Coupe looks completely stock. I just found the last few small parts to give it the appearance of originality. And yet I have a 3.2 modified engine having gone from stock carbs to injection, etc. Also, a 5sp, shocks, springs, thicker sway bars, exhaust, all non-original.

How does this affect value? Hard to say. If I had matching numbers and everything else was original I feel my coupe would be worth slightly more or slightly less to different buyers. The car would sell in the same range either way.

From what I have seen on this site, if you do all the mods and changes and upgrades the way they should be done, you will not get even close to the money you put in.
I assume you have money invested to bring you this point. My uneducated guess is add between $60k and $80k to that. If a shop like Coupeking or The Werks does the work add more $$$s.

A couple of knowledgable people have suggested a full restoration can go over $100k.

Can't wait to see what others think.

Steve
 
I do the restoration in Latvia, EU, so prices are different at least for metal works here. The first estimations show that restoration to oroginal state could cost 25-30k $. If the upgrade is done and good donor found (probably 5 series of late 80s), I should add some 10k $ more.

oneills said:
I am a semi-originalist. My 74 Polaris Euro Coupe looks completely stock. I just found the last few small parts to give it the appearance of originality. And yet I have a 3.2 modified engine having gone from stock carbs to injection, etc. Also, a 5sp, shocks, springs, thicker sway bars, exhaust, all non-original.

How does this affect value? Hard to say. If I had matching numbers and everything else was original I feel my coupe would be worth slightly more or slightly less to different buyers. The car would sell in the same range either way.

From what I have seen on this site, if you do all the mods and changes and upgrades the way they should be done, you will not get even close to the money you put in.
I assume you have money invested to bring you this point. My uneducated guess is add between $60k and $80k to that. If a shop like Coupeking or The Werks does the work add more $$$s.

A couple of knowledgable people have suggested a full restoration can go over $100k.

Can't wait to see what others think.

Steve
Click to expand...
 
Here is my take, from a US perspective:

1) Original M30 with Zeniths and 3-speed auto trans to M30B35 with FI and manual 5-speed get rag; DO IT, especially the 5-speed

2) Riviera to Black metallic; GOD FORBID

3) White original to Brown coniac leather interior; EITHER WAY.

4) Manual front windows to automatic ones; DO NOT DO

5) Manual sunroof to automatic one; DO NOT DO

6) Original 14" wheels to BBS RC 17"; DO NOT DO, maybe put 14'' Alpinas

7) New wiring and vintage look audio system. MINOR just add relays on the headlights and fresh grounds/copper straps.

I would add Bilstein shocks, ST sway bars.
 
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Agree with Arde's recommendations. Just like to add that Riviera is a rare color so I would not change that, personally I like the coniac leather combo. I may be partial that's my cars combo. Wheels should be your preference. They can always be changed by the next owner. Keep the originals.
Mike
 
I too agree with Arde on the upgrades.

I would emphasize that I do not like 17s on the e9. I like the BBS RCs; I almost bought a set for my e39, but 16" wheels are the max on the e9.
 
completely agree - DON'T get rid of the riviera. the color is gorgeous on a coupe. i have a black coupe that was originally baikal. i wish it was still baikal.
 
TREMK said:
Agree with Arde's recommendations. Just like to add that Riviera is a rare color so I would not change that,
Click to expand...

I agree as well. Basically, anything that can be easily returned to original is OK. Two examples:

- Changing a car's color is difficult and it is unlikely that the next owner will agree that black metallic was a good choice. So don't change the color.

- In my opinion, 17" wheels are a "boy racer" thing on a vintage car. But since the next owner can easily bolt the original wheels back on (as long as you retain them) go ahead and change the wheels if it makes you happy. Just don't expect to get the cost of the wheels & tires back when you sell the car.
 
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Plus one

Everything Arde said. Riviera blue is a rare and desirable color. Black will hurt the value.

I had a guy pay me quite a bit for some old manual window regulators, because they are lighter and more reliable. Manual windows and sunroof are a huge plus.

Scott
 
Thanks everyone. In fact the idea was that I would still leave every original item stored as well, not selling them away.
Now, when I have even got in touch with the son of the first owner, I am going for original, still probably buying spare set of 16" BBS RC or Alpina wheels as suggested for more fun appearance, but would still have the original set stored.
Hope to finish by summer 2016 and will post some results:-)
 
Anything you can "bolt-on", it's easy to reverse.

Paint is not "bolt-on"

Interior is somewhat, but expensive to change out.

But hey, it's your car and you're not interested in selling it; just do it the way you want.
 
if you do not like riviera blue, then at least keep it blue... Maybe Nachtblau metallic. I have a '73 in that colour and it's awsome!
 
I agree with this: go as you wish so far it is bolt-on.
BMW doesn't have the same philosophy as Porsche concerning modifying. The fact Porsche are now costing stratospheric amounts, Porschist are getting into BMWs. Therefore philosophy may change in the future as far as keeping it original for BMW.
So I actually had the same dilemma: keeping it original if I unfortunately have to sell it later on or improve reliability/driveability...

I found the solution after I bought a Euro '79 635csi with k80m but in rough cosmetic condition that doesn't justify restoring. Those cars are fitted with M90 engines and CR dogleg.
Luckily enough I have enough room to keep both the E9 & E24. I decided to use the E24 power plant in the E9 and 'salvage' engine and tranny in the e24.
I have just finished the transplants, surprisingly with very minor impact on the bodies. The only headache for me is dealing with driveshaft shortening/lenghtening and nobody here in Arkansas wants to mess with this.
The advantage in doing the swaps is you can keep your original engine in running condition, which will help preserving it; and if it is required to revert the transplants, it is still possible to do so.

Same thing for the wheel: I found a set of 16" alpinas and will replace the 14" BBS of the E24 with the original E9 wheel to keep them.

As far as paint, I agree: go original.




teahead said:
Anything you can "bolt-on", it's easy to reverse.

Paint is not "bolt-on"

Interior is somewhat, but expensive to change out.

But hey, it's your car and you're not interested in selling it; just do it the way you want.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, the old transplant trick?

Let me know when you find a way to transplant the paint :).
 
I own one of those personal taste 3.0CS.

It looks close to original but has BBS 16" wheels.
Has been lowered some.
Has a front spoiler but still has a bumper.
Motor is a 3.5 with pistons, cam and headers.
Complete drivetrain has been rebuilt with a 5 speed.
Car is a BMW color but not an original E9 color. Avus blue metallic.

I am starting on a complete body and interior restoration.
I plan on keeping my personal taste but nothing so radical as to severely affect the value.
I already have probably $5-6K in what I have done.
I have about a $20k budget for the rest including $4k in parts I have already purchased.

I think you would find that with current parts problems and the attention to detail it takes it would cost you more to do a completely correct restoration.
Therefore the car will probably be worth more but if it's so perfect that you're afraid to drive it then that wouldn't be much fun from my point of view.
I drove my car from Atlanta to Colorado and back last summer and this September from Atlanta to New York, New Jersey and back home.
So in two summers it has gone very close to 10000 miles.

They are fun to drive but the values are getting so high that many will not drive them very far from home.
 
m5bb said:
I own one of those personal taste 3.0CS.

It looks close to original but has BBS 16" wheels.
Has been lowered some.
Has a front spoiler but still has a bumper.
Motor is a 3.5 with pistons, cam and headers.
Complete drivetrain has been rebuilt with a 5 speed.
Car is a BMW color but not an original E9 color. Avus blue metallic.

I am starting on a complete body and interior restoration.
I plan on keeping my personal taste but nothing so radical as to severely affect the value.
I already have probably $5-6K in what I have done.
I have about a $20k budget for the rest including $4k in parts I have already purchased.

I think you would find that with current parts problems and the attention to detail it takes it would cost you more to do a completely correct restoration.
Therefore the car will probably be worth more but if it's so perfect that you're afraid to drive it then that wouldn't be much fun from my point of view.
I drove my car from Atlanta to Colorado and back last summer and this September from Atlanta to New York, New Jersey and back home.
So in two summers it has gone very close to 10000 miles.

They are fun to drive but the values are getting so high that many will not drive them very far from home.
Click to expand...

this, I also plan on driving mine but restoring to factory with slight hints which personalize the car to me
 
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