Good riddance to inept baffoons

Silver lining....excellent 'hero image' -- desktop background worthy for sure --

BMW-Group-Classic-Home-Header.jpg
 
The group was worthless because BMW quite simply does not care about supporting their classic cars.

The notion that this line of business was not profitable is convincing only to people who do not understand cost accounting. Top management allowed powerful people within the BMW heirarchy to push their costs onto the classic car group. Thereafter, their business units became more profitable and the classic car group became less so. Up and coming executives, who are hyper sensitive to the need to be associated with profits lest they be pushed out, naturally tended toward the more profitable units, depriving the classic group of talented and ambitious people. And once word got out that the classic car group could not defend its cost accounting, other units got in on the action. Costs pushed up, talent drained, and lo and behold the business was not successful.

The idea that BMW could not make its classic car group profitable is nonsense. Mercedes supports it classic cars. As does Porsche. And if you are so inclined, take a look at the massive support that is availabe for US muscle cars.

Give me access to the cost accounting and I'll make BMW's classic group wildly profitable. And without raping the customer base who enthusiastically supports the brand.
 
I know nothing of reports citing BMW Classic as not being profitable, so I'm keen to read the real evidence that shows BMW are not in their classic client's corner.

It seems to me, on the surface of it, BMW are looking to better support their approved classic dealer/parts supply network. Online direct business is great in many respects, but it does leave the dealers out of pocket.

Please can someone educate me on this.
 
Believe me, BMW dealers here in Australia are not left 'out of pocket " .They seem to carry "zero" inventory and quote 4-6 weeks to get parts in.....also seem to charge a minimum mark -up of 100% based on what say Walloths charge but 200-300% is not uncommon Some years back I got a price from local dealer for rocker /sill covers and was quoted the equivalent of US $500 EACH (!) . Suffice to say I don't even bother calling them anymore . Absolute bandits .
 
I remember once turning up to the local dealership with a GP 2 Batmobile race car, finished in full motorsport livery.. The sales manager asked me what it was as he viewed it parked outside on a trailer, he asked me if it was a 2002.
He didn't bother to take a closer look, he was completely disconnected with the history behind the badge he was selling.

So what does that say about the culture in dealerships?
 
Klassic said:
I remember once turning up to the local dealership with a GP 2 Batmobile race car, finished in full motorsport livery.. The sales manager asked me what it was as he viewed it parked outside on a trailer, he asked me if it was a 2002.
He didn't bother to take a closer look, he was completely disconnected with the history behind the badge he was selling.

So what does that say about the culture in dealerships?
Click to expand...
I had a similar experience with a main dealer parts department. They were adamant that there was no such model as an E3. The guy at the parts desk got really shirty about it. I asked him to enter the chassis number in to his parts database. He went quiet at that point, and even quieter when I asked to see the service director.

On the broader point of BMW not being interested in the classic business unit, you only have to look at their lack of interest in events like Techno Classica to see very clearly where their priorities lie. This is in stark contrast to the likes of Mercedes, Porsche, VW etc who have large display areas and demonstrate interest in enthusiasts.
 
My experience is different.

The local dealership gave my CSL centre stage for the launch of the 2021 range for Tasmania, alongside a modern CSL. Also did me a great rate on some minor work for commissioning and roadworthy.
BMW Group Classic also came from the other side of the planet to spend a week with me filming my CS for their Youtube Channel. They always reply to my questions on Vins or whatever else I ask, even if they can't help.
Are they perfect? No. Human, probably. They could do better but that's true of all of us. I'm not surprised the sales guy in @Klassic story was like that. They just want money. But I bet the guys in the shop knew what it was based on my experience. And is anybody honestly surprised BMW parts are dearer than Wallies. That's true of all non-factory parts for Euro cars.
 
Wes said:
My experience is different.

The local dealership gave my CSL centre stage for the launch of the 2021 range for Tasmania, alongside a modern CSL. Also did me a great rate on some minor work for commissioning and roadworthy.
BMW Group Classic also came from the other side of the planet to spend a week with me filming my CS for their Youtube Channel. They always reply to my questions on Vins or whatever else I ask, even if they can't help.
Are they perfect? No. Human, probably. They could do better but that's true of all of us. I'm not surprised the sales guy in @Klassic story was like that. They just want money. But I bet the guys in the shop knew what it was based on my experience. And is anybody honestly surprised BMW parts are dearer than Wallies. That's true of all non-factory parts for Euro cars.
Click to expand...

I think that you'll always find good guys in dealer workshops; some more so than others. One main dealer workshop manager I know is a massive E24 fan and the guys who work for him are keen and enthusiastic, as well as knowledgeable and helpful. There are a few dealers in the UK who like to display classics in their showrooms alongside new models etc. But it's a bit hit and miss I guess, and another factor is geography too.

I think there is definitely a broader issue in terms of corporate support (or lack of) as @Ohmess described earlier though.
 
Not a great loss - I used it a couple of times but if you could navigate the near impenetrable website, you'd more often than not find the item was no longer stocked ...
sadly, it seems there is more money to be made making electric BMWs in China - not surprisingly it's over 10 years since I owned a contemporary BMW
 
Klassic said:
I know nothing of reports citing BMW Classic as not being profitable, so I'm keen to read the real evidence that shows BMW are not in their classic client's corner.

It seems to me, on the surface of it, BMW are looking to better support their approved classic dealer/parts supply network. Online direct business is great in many respects, but it does leave the dealers out of pocket.

Please can someone educate me on this.
Click to expand...
Parts availability is my primary complaint. We can't get trim parts at all. Ask Gary Beck (m5bb) about his experience trying to order a new set of front grills. More than three years on a waiting list, and in the end, BMW didn't deliver the parts.

And we have to carefully scrutinize the mechanical and electrical parts BMW sells because they no longer do quality control. As with most businesses, quality control has been reduced to a supplier "certification" that they follow ISO quality standards along with a return policy that absolves the seller from the cost of returns.

Actually with BMW, while the supplier reimburses BMW for the cost of returned parts, BMW NA charges its dealers a fee for returned parts. This is another problem with BMW, because it creates a dynamic where the BMW dealer is sometimes reluctant to sell parts. We need to convince them we know which parts we need. Even when you arrive at the Classic parts dealer with a part number, they want to check the part against your VIN. And then, of course, you discover that they actually don't know that 17 digit VINs were implemented in 1981, so that a vehicle manufactured in 1972 will not have a 17 digit VIN. And they become rather frustrated after you tell them this, but give them your 7 digit VIN anyway, and they then discover that the part you are seeking doesn't fit the car that comes up when they run your VIN in their system. "Uh, that parts doesn't fit a Euro e21." "Well, its a good thing I don't own a Euro e21. My car is a 1972 3.0 CS. Let's look up the part and see which car it fits, shall we?" And sometimes, as they are looking up the part, I produce the old one and say something like "It looks like this, right." "And the list of cars that part fits includes my car, right?"

I later learned that BMW didn't actually train the parts guys at their Classic dealers. They trained a mechanic or two, and those guys deal directly with Germany to get parts. After looking at this (including discussions with a couple of restoration guys who are household names here, and with BMWNA executives), I've concluded that their business model was to target the restoration and maintenance part of the classic car market. It seems odd to me that they thought there was a big market in the US for cars restored to their original specifications at dealer prices. I gave the BMWNA VP the example of upgrading my starter to the later fixed magnet starter. My car starts much more efficiently with this part, and it would be silly to toss away that improved function to go back to originality. But apparently that was their plan.

When I look at the people I know who own and love old BMWs, BMW's business plan for the Classic group strikes me as odd. First, if you look at the way our cars were marketed, and at the owner's manuals for our cars, it is quite clear that BMW expected their owners to take a very active role in the maintenance and care of their vehicles. The fact that the procedure for adjusting valves is set forth in the owners manual makes this plain. Moreover, it is clear from attending BMW car events and from looking through the numerous BMW related forums that there is still a large contingent of BMW owners who are interested in doing mechanical work on their cars themselves. This is actually one of the reasons I got into BMW in the first place; working on cars was a very nice escape from sitting in front of a computer and dealing with numbers all day.

It would be nice if BMW's support for our cars was more consistent with the way we as owners view them. But they will never support our efforts to modify their designs, even when we are merely taking engine parts from later cars, like the fixed magnet starters, that were evolutionary engineering changes that BMW themselves embraced.
 
When I first bought my CS in the early 80s, my primary source for parts was the local dealer. I bought lots of little parts in anticipation of a restoration and the parts not being available in the future. Then BMW created their first iteration of their classic parts group, Mobile Tradition. I was not surprised to see prices of most classic parts increase by about 30%. At that point I turned to Maximillian Importing for parts. Lately I have been using W & N for parts. Shipping and duty make it more expensive than local sources, but they probably sell every part that is available. With the demise of BMW Groups Classic will BMW raise the parts prices again when they transfer them back to the normal parts group?
 
m_thompson said:
When I first bought my CS in the early 80s, my primary source for parts was the local dealer. I bought lots of little parts in anticipation of a restoration and the parts not being available in the future. Then BMW created their first iteration of their classic parts group, Mobile Tradition. I was not surprised to see prices of most classic parts increase by about 30%. At that point I turned to Maximillian Importing for parts. Lately I have been using W & N for parts. Shipping and duty make it more expensive than local sources, but they probably sell every part that is available. With the demise of BMW Groups Classic will BMW raise the parts prices again when they transfer them back to the normal parts group?
Click to expand...
You are presuming that they will transfer them to the parts group. They may simply dispense with them.

There appears to be a certain level of panic within the traditional auto manufacturers. They believe that internal combustion engines are about to be displaced by something else, and because of this, they believe that they are in a fight for survival. Supporting classic cars is a luxury if you have this mindset.

And I have some sympathy for their anxiety. They might be able to compete with hybrids, or perhaps even EVs, but in a world of driverless cars, I don't see how BMW (or Bentley or Ferrari or Land Rover) distinguishes itself.
 
It will be interesting to see if W&N increase their prices. Good chance they will be the recipient of many of the parts still left on BMW's shelves, that's good and bad.
 
bavbob said:
It will be interesting to see if W&N increase their prices. Good chance they will be the recipient of many of the parts still left on BMW's shelves, that's good and bad.
Click to expand...
W&N have for many years sourced their parts from BMW directly. I heard from a very well informed source that they used to trawl BMW dealers all over Germany for stock they didn’t want any more, and I can imagine that they turned up some absolute gems in the process!
 
I see - at least for most of us, Classic BMW fans - the heritage is only for adverts, movies and references to new models.

Several years ago, when my journey with old BMW has started I was buying parts at old dealership with the guy having few programs to be able to detect older part numbers new programs can only tell - "not available anymore".

Current dealerships (new, tidy etc) have only newest system and really can't help with part selection. They can order only a number based on inaccurate system and siplpe drawings. No classic experience at spare parts desk. This is the change I noticed.

I'm not surprised with BMW ... as many car producers are hit by electro-mobility legislation, self-driving etc. and they are forced to cut some businesses.

Another story is how to design and introduce so many models. Only few can tell which Fxx ,Gxx are which cars despite the most famous, nice...

Classic market - with all the respect - is not a business case if you will compare volumes worldwide per year with group of enthusiasts.

I'm disappointed as some of You but it is like it is.
I have read also about similar trend at Mercedes. More and more parts being discontinued. Maybe it will not be so dramatic as for BMW.

Good in a bad we have a huge Group of Fans. Not only on this professional Forum.
Availability of 3D printing, CNC milling, chemistry etc. is helping a lot to produce some parts on our own and for our friends.
How many of interesting discussions would not took place on here if all the parts will be available for low price.
I know this theory is "strange" but I know, lack of something is a great opportunity of invention, creation and big motivator.

I'm pretty sure we can manage to keep and restore our cars even without any help from BMW Classic whatsoever.
 
However, we need to remember that when we are producing parts on our own and for friends, we are using someone else's property. BMW owns the designs of our parts, and in the US at least, they can prevent us from selling parts (even if we are only selling at cost). This is true even if they won't supply us a part.

One of the reasons the parts support for US muscle cars is so robust is that US manufacturers have made it clear that they will not prevent sales of parts for their old cars. Indeed, in some cases they have sold off molds and dies to third parties to allow the third parties to make parts.
 
I would feel even more released to reproduce part for my own if BMW will quit support BMW classic part at all. Joke.

On the other side it is also "funny" they can chase hobbyist for few plastic parts rather than ask to produce some pieces.

Spare parts story is "strange". Many of BMW spare parts sellers are doing their business for free even mentioning brand name. I can't imagine all parts available in non-BMW shops are taxed by BMW due to usage of name on them. Maybe it is easier to find a guilty on private, free forum or in the shop selling also OE BMW parts?

I think it sounds as a optional dream, BMW allowing other private company to take care of BMW classic parts - not for free.
It could be surprisingly profitable for All with BMW at first.

They seems to be too busy/overwhelmed too much with current revolution on the car market and "pademic effects".
Not only BMW for sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top