1971 Euro CSi on BaT--yes another one!

[Drew Gregg]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-bmw-3-0csi-13/

As Yogi used to say,"Deja Vu All Over Again"

Another grey market car here in the US for sale with a "clean Montana title from an LLC"
Where have we heard that again?

I'm pretty sure there are CSi, 2002Tii, and 2002Turbo cars owned by California residents with Cali plates. How did that happen?
The previous CSi BaT auction had many comments about how they are almost impossible to get registered in Cal.

 

[JBMW]

Hi Drew,
I was waiting for someone to share my CSI on here!
Yes of course I get to follow a slew of other euro CSIs, talk about flooding the market :/ But this is another Scuderia Sportiva resto like the Polaris from earlier in week. I flew out to Koln and spent time with Wolf once this car finished restoration. Wolf and I have grown a business relationship over the past few months that aims at presenting not only E9 restos, but many of the other very cool cars he has to the US. He finds them, restores them, etc, and I import them and have them ready for a US buyer, so that they don’t have to deal with the hassle of importing, paperwork, etc. He doesn’t have any kids and as a young enthusiast he saw the passion in my eyes and has sort of taken me under his wing. Teaching me as we go. It allows me to experience really awesome cars. Another one of the cars we brought over together is a S38 3.6 swapped E9 with a very cool story relating to BMW Motorsport themselves. Was featured on the BMW CCAs pages recently.

Anyhow regarding the Montana LLC, unlike other sellers we know who, I actually live between Montana and Illinois.(family in both states). Illinois is my base camp and closer to Newark, where the cars come in, so they come here. And any fellow Illinois residents can understand why if I had to choose where to register my fleet of personal BMWs and cars such as this, its definitely not in Illinois. Yearly registration costs vs permanent registration is a big deal!

 

[Arde]

A Montana LLC to get around emissions and registration impediments is one thing.
Registration costs are another, but who am I to judge.

I think the theme was about California clamping down on Montana registered cars, and that door for interesting cars coming from Europe to CA closing.

 

[sfdon]

The engine bay is an embarrassment to German craftsmanship.
So much wrong. Missing parts, wrong parts, dirty parts.
This is no restoration.
To be clear- I visited with Wolf in Bad Herrenalb last May. This engine bay doesn’t look like his work.

 

[sfdon]

I don’t believe Wolf ”restored” this car. He may have done work on it but this car is not restored.

 

[TomHom]

Definitely not!
I heard Scuderia Colonia moved their locaction to Kirchen/Sieg, but I´m pretty sure it does not look like this:

And, as the pictures tell, only minor cosmetic work was done.

They even did not try to correct faults from the previous restauration(s).
As we say back here in Germany "Jeden Morgen steht ein Dummer auf".
Nice try!
No further comment!
Thomas

 

[JBMW]

We can watch over restored cars go RNM for the rest of eternity if you guys would prefer. I didn’t claim the car to be a “nut and bolt” restoration but what would you call a car with all new undercarriage, brand new interior upholstery and paint work? Certainly not original condition.
This is a beautiful car that does everything it should… well. Could a few things have been further addressed that you guys noticed, sure. But the average enthusiast and even more so a collector interested in a great E9 doesn’t possess the burden of knowledge you guys retain, nor do I think they want to.

This is a great car that presents well and has the important stuff done. And as we have seen with some reserves, theres a big gap in expenses to get to the next step, which puts a car in the never to be enjoyed again category, and whats the fun in that.

This car is above MANY other examples we've seen come to BAT. My job is to import nice cars and find the right enthusiast for said car.
You guys can feel free the present the market with nicer E9s and you guys can set the reserve as sky high as you’d like!
The best part of an auction is the interested parties set the price based what they want to pay for a car.
Sure I speak confidently of the car, more so touching on the fact that its an original configuration car, which it is. Im sorry you don’t like my confident wording pertaining to the condition. Not sure if that justified the car to be dragged through the mud…

 

[sfdon]

it doesn’t take much coupe knowledge to know that the door handles aren’t installed correctly or that the mirrors are in the wrong place, the windshield wipers are both drivers side.
And if anything was dragged through the mud it was that headliner.

Google translate is everyone’s friend..

“wasserkuhler nach muster gereingte und uberpruft“ is not German for replacement radiator.

“The radiator was cleaned and tested” is English for 176€ job done at a radiator shop.

A new radiator costs 4 times what a cleaning costs.



Your words ….

”But this is another Scuderia Sportiva resto like the Polaris from earlier in week.”

It isn’t. Not by a long shot…

“I flew out to Koln and spent time with Wolf once this car finished restoration”

It didn’t finish restoration.

“This is considered a partial restoration”

Maybe should have started with this statement….

 

[BMW Pete]

We can watch over restored cars go RNM for the rest of eternity if you guys would prefer. I didn’t claim the car to be a “nut and bolt” restoration but what would you call a car with all new undercarriage, brand new interior upholstery and paint work? Certainly not original condition.
This is a beautiful car that does everything it should… well. Could a few things have been further addressed that you guys noticed, sure. But the average enthusiast and even more so a collector interested in a great E9 doesn’t possess the burden of knowledge you guys retain, nor do I think they want to.

This is a great car that presents well and has the important stuff done. And as we have seen with some reserves, theres a big gap in expenses to get to the next step, which puts a car in the never to be enjoyed again category, and whats the fun in that.

This car is above MANY other examples we've seen come to BAT. My job is to import nice cars and find the right enthusiast for said car.
You guys can feel free the present the market with nicer E9s and you guys can set the reserve as sky high as you’d like!
The best part of an auction is the interested parties set the price based what they want to pay for a car.
Sure I speak confidently of the car, more so touching on the fact that its an original configuration car, which it is. Im sorry you don’t like my confident wording pertaining to the condition. Not sure if that justified the car to be dragged through the mud…

Well, I suppose somebody has to say it.

Wolf is a good man and a friend to many on this forum, he knows E9s and sells many, including some important ones over the years

You very clearly state "Your job is to import cars" yet you call yourself "private"

You are a dealer dealing in cars, yet with a rather thin skin, as a dealer selling in public on BAT, a thicker skin might be a good idea.

Telling the forum members what an enthusiast or collector wants ? Have you some idea that all on here are something other than enthusiasts or collectors ?

You don't want your car to be dragged through the mud, then selling cars on BAT might not be your best choice sir

Sorry if my bluntness is hurtful, but I might suggest a slice of humble pie before telling us all about E9s

 

[JBMW]

Does my BAT sales history indicate I move any more cars than 5 a year necessitating a dealers license?
My “job” was to import this car and present it. I invested my money, my time, my risk to bring it here and present it openly.
Once again my listing contains more pictures than 95% of all BAT listings, e9s included. I don’t hide parts of the car. Its all there. But for some reason Im greeted with standoffish comments that feel like they are personal towards me or aimed at hurting my listing as if Im out there to screw someone over. Im all for sharing knowledge and pointing things out on cars for sale, thats what comments are for, but those felt over the top and down right aggressive. As if a sale going through is personally affecting anyone.
Im not telling you guys what an enthusiast wants or a collector wants. But what I know is that long time collectors/ experts of a specific car like E9s aren’t buying them on BAT, because they are more critical and want better deals…. Its not hard to see with BAT, the buyers aren’t the critical ones, the buyer is the guy that looked through the pictures and loves the car. Not the guy wondering if the wiper blades are incorrect.

If I had that car listed for $300k and you came to see it in person, by all means lay it on me, thats fully justified. But to ridicule me and the car whilst having no idea of the reserve feels malicious, pointless, and disrespectful. By all means, inform the room of areas that should be of attention but to go about it in that way like saying, “an embarrassment”. Ouch.
If your goal is the try and halt as many E9 sales as possible, talking like that is a good way to do it.

Again, just like the last E9, I posted 2x as many pictures as 90% of BAT listings. Everything is out there to be seen. If I was trying to hide things, my BAT listing would have 200 less pictures, and half the mentioned issues wouldn’t be known. Better yet, I would have flagged all the negative comments, yet I didn’t. I sell transparently. I would appreciate not being ridiculed as if Im a scam artist demanding a premium…

 

[sfdon]

Josh- I assure you the whole world is following your youtube channel. What cars come and what cars go.

You seem like a great guy and a true gearhead. Maybe tone down the superlatives in your BAT descriptions?

I would also certainly send Wolf a copy of any ads you plan to place involving cars that have gone through his shop.

Again- GLWTA

 

[JBMW]

Thank you for recognizing that Don. I understand my comments were very confident and may have been worded beyond what they should have been. I guess I am no better than Samboss telling people registering grey market cars in California is easy in his comments. Im passionate about these cars, and I am passionate when selling them. Factory new condition should not have been the wording I used, but sitting in that interior(minus the headliner) and looking underneath that E9 is hard to not think "wow this looks brand new". I understand there are things that need addressing or things that were decided to be left untouched but that's why there is an extensive gallery for bidders to see and decide what bothers them or not. I just would have appreciated those things mentioned in a less demeaning way towards me and towards the car and damaging the auction.Talking like that and deterring bidders doesn't help any of us. Its still a beautiful car that does everything it should and any fan of the chassis would be very satisfied owning it in my opinion.

Ive never tried to hide something on a car Ive sold. Whether the $800 beaters that I bought crashed and pulled the frames straight with a tree in my front yard, or these E9s. I pride myself in having an extensive photo gallery of each and every car I do post on BAT. Who knows the reserve on the Polaris could be $20,000 and it was judged like a $250k CSL...

I enjoy learning from you, I enjoy trying to become a member of this community, I wish I could feel more welcomed. Especially as I get ready to build my own Polaris Coupe.

 

[offpage]

As someone relatively new to this forum and coupe ownership, I've found it very welcoming to newbies who ask for help when they need it. I believe this group would still welcome you too if you are able to reflect the values the most vocal and important members on here share.

On BAT, the sellers presentation of the car is often judged and scrutinized the same if not more than the photos, it's a reality of an open forum auction platform. If you do not want your personal words or presentation scrutinized there are other auction and sales formats that allow you to be in the background as a seller.

I believe in any public forum someone who is perceived as hyping only the positives without also vocally representing the full realities will be heavily scrutinized. Whether you intended it or not, that is how your presentation was perceived. From what I have seen that is not unique to BAT, or to e9 owners, that will happen in any open forum you go to.

Pointing to the photos and blaming the audience for not fact checking your words against the photos is an easy cop out for not taking full responsibility for your words. A short time ago when I was a buyer this group's ability to see things and point them out when a seller is hyping only the positives is invaluable. I believe this group of people here are the utmost stewards of the e9 and its future, for the better. As enthusiasts, no one wants a buyer to end up with a car that wasn't represented fairly or accurately, and ultimately long term owners don't want an inflated market built on sellers hype.

You're obviously an enthusiast, much more so than me. I believe this group would value your enthusiasm if it was fairly applied to both the things that are standout about this coupe and the things that still need tending to for this to be like factory new.

Instead of referencing Samboss's auctions as any sort of standard to measure yourself against, you will probably get more long term value in the community from referencing someone like HBChris's auctions as a standard that this group would uphold as a sustainable way for you to consistently sell imported e9s as you've indicated you want to do.

I've probably said too much, but I value this community so much that I felt compelled to share my perspective from the sidelines.

GLWTA

 

[JBMW]

I appreciate your added thoughts. I do not disagree with you. And I recognize the value as a seller of pointing out not only the positives, but also the flaws, something I very typically do when I am aware of said flaws. To be truthful, as I am still learning E9s, most things mentioned never stood out to me, or never even came across as issues in my head. In any matter none of these things would cost a further restoration to address. The car can be enjoyed as is, reliably, for a long time. Scrutinization of the details is fine, even welcomed, but I don't feel it was done respectfully in the slightest. I would expect a "these attributes of this E9 are nice, but these could be addressed......" not talks of being an embarrassment as if its an EBay sponsored car.
Came out of the gate with that felt like a vendetta against me, the car, and the auction. Maybe I am thinking too deeply of it

 

[TomHom]

Rarely I comment the quality of the work done by others or the appearance of an E9. This time I did since you said “This 1971 BMW 3.0CSi ....was refurbished in Germany by Scuderia Sportiva Colonia between 2022 and 2023 before being imported to the US by the seller”,
“this is another Scuderia Sportiva resto like the Polaris from earlier in week”
My question is : Who did the work, Scuderia Sportiva Colonia or you?
Thomas

 

[JBMW]

Rarely I comment the quality of the work done by others or the appearance of an E9. This time I did since you said “This 1971 BMW 3.0CSi ....was refurbished in Germany by Scuderia Sportiva Colonia between 2022 and 2023 before being imported to the US by the seller”,
“this is another Scuderia Sportiva resto like the Polaris from earlier in week”
My question is : Who did the work, Scuderia Sportiva Colonia or you?
Thomas

Scuderia Sportiva. My part is importing/ detailing/ pictures.

 

[Frederick]

Try selling a jaguar E type like this and see if that group does’nt jump up your ass! These guys are tame by comparison. It’s a great forum.most everyone has issues with their car, they’re just not trying to sell them.
Seems like the headline it would’ve been an easy fix if the windows were out.

 

[lip277]

I'm pretty sure there are CSi, 2002Tii, and 2002Turbo cars owned by California residents with Cali plates. How did that happen?
The previous CSi BaT auction had many comments about how they are almost impossible to get registered in Cal.

Many of these cars were brought into CA before the rules became prohibitive. When I was first interested in these cars (mid 1980's) - there were several for sale locally (Monterey Bay Area) that were registered in California. Same with other 'grey market' cars - but then in the very late 1980's through the 1990's that all changed.
Cars that were currently registered in CA or cars that could prove CA registration history (if registered in another state) could regain CA registration if desired. There are folks that know these details more than I do - but that is what I knew of this from back when I lived there....

 

[BrewKaiser]

The e9 community is small. Any car marketed as "like new" will likely see service at one of the few remaining expert mechanics local to it in a short amount of time. Word will get round on the quality, or lack there of, should their be obvious issues or short cuts taken. In periods like now where there is significant interest and buyers willing to pay substantial sums for a hard to obtain classic like an e9 the scrutiny will be even higher.

I appreciate the role the experts on this forum play by keeping auctions honest. Yes, we all want cars to do well on BaT thereby increasing the value and investment for everyone, but the flip side is that when left unchecked the market sours from too many opportunists taking advantage of a hot market with vehicles not reflective of how they were advertised.

Prior to buying my '73 CS I had PPI performed and personally looked at several e9s that were on BaT auction. I only considered CA titled cars as I knew registration would be a nightmare despite whatever assurances are given. Buyers are equally responsible on BaT for ensuring they are bidding on a solid vehicle. It turned out that I was unable to PPI or personally see my '73 prior to bidding and eventual purchase (direct with dealer as RNM and I was 2nd highest bidder). If it were not for the many pictures, the 200+ pages of service records and history, and the endoursement of many members on this forum I would not have pursued it. Since I had done enough research I knew what to look for and what to expect. I knew I was not buying concourse level car and certainly not orginal given the modifications done.

Fast forward to today, what was sold as a near perfect running example is sitting in the shop needing a new master clutch cylinder, the 5th engine cylinder not firing and few other minor issues that I've noted over the past 3 months of ownership. Am I annoyed? Sure. Should I be surprised? No. We all know these vehicles are 50 years old and the saavy buyer will expect this as well.

@JBMW my observations over the many years of following BaT is that the most successful auctions are from sellers who go out of their way to point out all known issues and being 100% truthful. Your MANY photos certainly aid in this, but as @sfdon pointed out the many superlatives are over exaggerating what this vehicle really is: A good running example, but not "like new" or perfect.

Certainly applaude you for finding a way to make a business out of something you are passionate about.

GLWA

 

[adawil2002]

With any auction be it BaT, Bonhams, Gooding, RM Sotheby's, Barrett-Jackson, Broad Arrow, Articurial or any auction for any E9 from 2800CS to 3.0CSLs including Tribute & Pedigreed Factory Race CSLs.

As one who has 2 good friends who have been egregiously misled by a nefariously "restored" CS Coupe the present owner found is essentially shiny painted Confectioner Sugar filled Swiss Cheese. The owner is understandably livid about what's been found. Under the copious fiberglas & polyester filler is literally loose aluminum flashing & chicken wire.

As I wrote on BaT regarding this 1971 CSi, which applies to all auctions, private sales & any used car 'collector' or otherwise. Whether one is spending $30+ Million at auction or under $7K at a local used car lot.

"One must do their due diligence with Pre-Purchase Inspection with a shop or individual very well versed with these BMWs. With the bid at $115,000 with 4 days to go as I write & post this. While this posted advice is free, the nominal cost of a PPI is money well spent."

There are E9 experts in Northern Illinois easily found with a simple search. I will not disclose their info as I only offer neutral experiential advice.