1972 BMW 3.0 CSL E9 Auction

I can't understand how this could ever work out financially. However it ends up, either as a restoration, or using the roof and vin stamp to create a fake, it will never have a matching number engine (2285042) - at least that is what the listing suggests.
 
I can't understand how this could ever work out financially. However it ends up, either as a restoration, or using the roof and vin stamp to create a fake, it will never have a matching number engine (2285042) - at least that is what the listing suggests.

I think engine was replaced by BMW circa 1977 and there's paperwork, so may be considered in similar way to matching numbers.
Swapping roof wont fool anybody as the fenders and real valance are also thin gauge.
 
Sadly I suspect that this car will disappear for a bit, then magically reappear following a ‘full, professional restoration’.

When translated, this means that the VIN and CSL specific parts will be grafted on to a CS and it’ll be passed off as the real thing. It’s happened plenty of times before.
 
To give you an idea of how hard states go after VIN swapped vehicles, here is one that openly discussed it on Bat. I couldn't believe someone paid 140k for this as nice as it was... I saw it at the Rgruppe Treffen when it was freshly done and it was really nice but still a full blown vin swap...

 
And now you know why so many criminals are named "VINny"!
Thanks! I'm here all week and don't forget to tip your waitresses... :p
 
I was wondering, today if you own a CSL and buy a replacement wing (fender) is it also thinner gauge? If all the replacement wings are the same material, same thickness, is it still a CSL after that common part is used for the wing change?
Then what if you change two wings?
How about if you change all the wings and the floors and cills (rockers)?
At what point is it no longer a CSL? 20% new metal, 50% new, 75% new. Just food for thought as I don’t have an answer.
 
To give you an idea of how hard states go after VIN swapped vehicles, here is one that openly discussed it on Bat. I couldn't believe someone paid 140k for this as nice as it was... I saw it at the Rgruppe Treffen when it was freshly done and it was really nice but still a full blown vin swap...

Swapping vin numbers is an offence over here , you could get a criminal record if you are caught doing it .
It is a definite no no !
Hopefully this csl will live on after a proper nut and bolt rebuild by someone.
It would take someone with the resources like Miklos to do it correctly i think.
 
I was wondering, today if you own a CSL and buy a replacement wing (fender) is it also thinner gauge? If all the replacement wings are the same material, same thickness, is it still a CSL after that common part is used for the wing change?
Then what if you change two wings?
How about if you change all the wings and the floors and cills (rockers)?
At what point is it no longer a CSL? 20% new metal, 50% new, 75% new. Just food for thought as I don’t have an answer.

I've had this discussion before. Was very lucky my car didn't need really any metal in the thin gauge panels. Where we had to replace metal we matched the lightweight gauge. It's like the story of the cleaner wanting to keep his favourite broom. "Ive only ever had to replace the handle twice and the head three times."
 
 
Swapping vin numbers is an offence over here , you could get a criminal record if you are caught doing it .
It is a definite no no !
Hopefully this csl will live on after a proper nut and bolt rebuild by someone.
It would take someone with the resources like Miklos to do it correctly i think.
It’s a criminal offence in the UK too. But sadly it still goes on, and the perpetrators still get away with it.
 
It’s a criminal offence in the UK too. But sadly it still goes on, and the perpetrators still get away with it.
Okay,
If you buy a car legitimately over here and it is found to have an altered vin , the government take it from you and crush the car .

it seems completely crazy to actually have a car such as the back dated Porsche 911 mentioned above rolling around happily announcing to anyone that is interested, that it is a cut and shut with a vin swap.
And it says it has a clear title.
But the clear title is from a different car altogether
Mental !
That car would be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities over here .
 
Okay,
If you buy a car legitimately over here and it is found to have an altered vin , the government take it from you and crush the car .

it seems completely crazy to actually have a car such as the back dated Porsche 911 mentioned above rolling around happily announcing to anyone that is interested, that it is a cut and shut with a vin swap.
And it says it has a clear title.
But the clear title is from a different car altogether
Mental !
That car would be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities over here .
Just to clarify
In case anyone has their feelings hurt .
I’m not saying that an offence was actually carried out by whoever built that Porsche or that the new owner is in breach of any local laws or regulations.
It may be entirely legal to do that in that part of the world.
I don’t know what the laws and regulations are there.
It’s just here in Ireland if it was done correctly it would have to retain its original title vin and registration.
Also just for the record : that Porsche is gorgeous !!
If I owned it I would just prefer it had its factory identity.
 
It's a criminal offense in every civilized country with the seizure and crushing of the car in play. That's what makes the BAT auction where it's openly discussed, so strange... to me at least.
 
i don't find it that strange.... Why would a 50 year old car never have changed chassis ? and if so , think accident , is that a big problem ?
Of course changing a CS into a CSL with those papers is just flipper money ...

I wonder how many CSL were built and how many are on the road ? :D Big money always get's the attention of getting a part of the game easy....
 
I was wondering, today if you own a CSL and buy a replacement wing (fender) is it also thinner gauge? If all the replacement wings are the same material, same thickness, is it still a CSL after that common part is used for the wing change?
Then what if you change two wings?
How about if you change all the wings and the floors and cills (rockers)?
At what point is it no longer a CSL? 20% new metal, 50% new, 75% new. Just food for thought as I don’t have an answer.
Well, if you are repairing your special, limited-production automobile and you can't get the specific rare parts that are what sets it apart from regular-run production cars then there's a chance that you've reduced the value of yours by just a bit. Can't find the thin carpets that CSL models have? Maybe not a big impact. No alloy door skins or hood? That's a much bigger deal. But as long as it's a real CSL as confirmed by its genuine VIN, then it's always going to be a CSL albeit a somewhat modified one. Now we modify our normal production E9 with an eye towards performance, not worrying too much about value because we like to drive them. Owning a limited production car is a different horse and a lot of the value is the originality of the car, the things that set it apart from the rest. Less original should mean less value. A problem arises when a car has been repaired with non-genuine parts and that isn't disclosed to potential buyers. A heavier gauge fender is hard to distinguish from a thinner CSL one, so it should be called out in the description, but not all sellers will be that honest with money on the line. As genuine, accurate CSL models become rarer, their value should increase, but that increase will spur 'tribute' restorations hoping to also cash in.

My two cents.
 
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