1974 / 1975 Kidney Grille Options

HB Chris said:
Photos were recycled in brochures, even the US brochures showed velour interiors. Is it possible the euro only CSi got the black five slat, that's a possibility. I think the ETK has more credence than photos of coupes with unknown provenance. Does anyone have a 1974 publication dated brochure with the chubby grille? That is why I posted the e3 brochure.
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Yes but regardless of model year, BMW got those photos by sticking a CSL grill on a non-CSL. That combined with a lot of anecdotal evidence of 74's with five slot black grills really points to this being a factory thing.

I'll look around for some factory photos today.
 
BMW 2.5CS (1975+) - skinny five bar

tumblr_mp749xG7IG1qzut9po1_1280.jpg


UK Brochure:
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CS Brochure with grille closeup:
e9_1974_en_03-jpg.23492
 
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Chris,

What are your thoughts on all of the factory photographs supporting non CSL's with black five bar grills? I could post another 20 1974 registry coupes with chubby four bar grills. I'm not questioning whether some 1974's had the four bar grills. I am challenging the notion that *all 1974 coupes rolled off the floor with four bar grills. We have numerous 1974 cars with these NLA black five bar grills, members validating that they have this grill. For a part that was documented as CSL specific and was apparently superseded in the late 70's, why are there so many of them floating around? Lastly, what about all of the factory photos of non-CSL's with the black five bar grill?
 
Markos,

Forty-two years have passed since the last coupes came down the production line. Over these many years owners have replaced the kidney grille to suit their tastes, some like black, some like polished and others were repaired/repainted after an accident. We can both post photos but only those who were around when our coupes were new know the whole story. I have relied on Murray Fowler and other long time owners and the ETK. The black five slat was a CSL grille, but, that doesn't keep owners from replacing their polished grilles. Perhaps only in the US did polished grilles remain the standard through the 73 model year and the black four slat arrived on 74 models only in the US. Could the euro CSis have had black five slat grilles, someone with knowledge of these coupes could speak up, someone like Peder Mansson. Another coincidence is that when big bumpers arrived in 74 in the US, even the 2002 got a new four slat black kidney, different surround though, was this BMWs cost cutting move as the slats were now plastic? BMW is not a company that would be swapping grille designs back and forth in their production line or let their workers choose which grille to install.

What are your thoughts on the ETK?

Edit: just saw your last post, I also searched and can find just as many chubby grilles as the earlier style. A restored coupe is not a definitive answer unfortunately.
 
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HB Chris said:
Markos,


Forty-two years have passed since the last coupes came down the production line. Over these many years owners have replaced the kidney grille to suit their tastes, some like black, some like polished and others were repaired/repainted after an accident.
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So the five bar grill was stated CSL specific. It is safe to assume then that this was a low production replacement part and you suspect that the part switched to NLA in 1980? That is 36 years of a low production part being unavaible, yet we have countless 1974’s with a black five bar grille. People either got lucky, or all of these folks decided to paint their chrome replacement grill black.


HB Chris said:
We can both post photos but only those who were around when our coupes were new know the whole story.
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You see, posting pictures of 74’s with the four bar grills doesn’t discredit the numerous photos of 74’s with black five bar grills. It only reinforces the fact that the grille usage was inconsistent. Let’s not forget that five of those photos that I posted are factory advertisements showing the five bar grill on non-CSL.


HB Chris said:
I have relied on Murray Fowler and other long time owners and the ETK. The black five slat was a CSL grille, but, that doesn't keep owners from replacing their polished grilles.
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I never had the pleasure of meeting Murray, but this is what he said:


”Blumax” said:
During the first two model years or three--all E-9's coming to the USA were originally fitted with anodized aluminum kidney grills--some of you call them chrome--this changed to the black slat type at about mid-year production in 1973 for US bound Coupes--don't know for Euro models. Since then some confusion has followed with the belief that only CSL's were authorized to sport the black slat grills--remember NO CSL's were ever officially imported to the US by Hoffman Motors and many of you admit to having the black slats--all CSL's have found their way to these shores by individual sponsorship--many by armed forces members returning--especially pilots--since their incomes were higher--ya know flight pay and all--so buying one was easier.
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HB Chris said:
Perhaps only in the US did polished grilles remain the standard through the 73 model year and the black four slat arrived on 74 models only in the US. Could the euro CSis have had black five slat grilles, someone with knowledge of these coupes could speak up, someone like Peder Mansson. Another coincidence is that when big bumpers arrived in 74 in the US, even the 2002 got a new four slat black kidney, different surround though, was this BMWs cost cutting move as the slats were now plastic? BMW is not a company that would be swapping grille designs back and forth in their production line or let their workers choose which grille to install.
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I was thinking that this could be a possibility. There are hoards more pictures that come up for 1974 BMW’s with the five slot grille, but I intentionally picked out the ones with big bumpers in order to clearly identify the fact that it’s a ’74.



HB Chris said:
What are your thoughts on the ETK?
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I think that the ETK is wrong. I would hazard to guess that you have other examples of the ETK being incorrect or incomplete. Is that assumption correct?
 
Markos,

You win, you have thoroughly worn me out. You restate things I have said incorrectly. The ETK is wrong, go figure. Time for an IPA.
 
HB Chris said:
Markos,

You win, you have thoroughly worn me out. You restate things I have said incorrectly. The ETK is wrong, go figure. Time for an IPA.
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An IPA sounds like a great idea! You already know that I am self conscious of irritating you and this certainly wasn't my goal. It is probably healthy that I was looking for old car pictures instead of parts to buy!

I brought no insight or history to the table. I basically just resurfaced content found on the interweb. Goggle images can not replace the immense the amount of tribal knowledge that is available from you and other veteran members.
 
My apologies to everyone who could care less about kidney grilles. I feel that BMW and our CCA should care about originality in our Concours judging but we don't have experts on every model. Porsche and MB Concours do judge on originality. And if we don't care we are losing a piece of our history. Yes it's fine to modify our coupes but it would be nice to have a baseline so in twenty or thirty years time we don't have new owners saying that the b35 motor is original to their coupe.
 
HB Chris said:
My apologies to everyone who could care less about kidney grilles. I feel that BMW and our CCA should care about originality in our Concours judging but we don't have experts on every model. Porsche and MB Concours do judge on originality. And if we don't care we are losing a piece of our history. Yes it's fine to modify our coupes but it would be nice to have a baseline so in twenty or thirty years time we don't have new owners saying that the b35 motor is original to their coupe.
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Nobody is going to buy those two coupes so I think this was a very worthwhile discovery effort. Granted, we didn't actually confirm or debunk anything but perhaps highlighted a mystery. We probably should have switched to the larger kidney grille thread but we can always link later.

I've always been kind of obsessed with rare OEM parts, mid-year cutoffs etc. It's never really mattered for anything valuable other than knowing which brake rotors to buy for an '88 Jetta GLI, or '99 Jeep Cherokee (both of which had a midyear shift). To your point, it's very applicable if you are trying to stay OEM-correct on a classic car like ours. I also personally believe that even for the non-Concours market, the desire to find correct OEM e9's will change over time, following in the foot steps of Porsche owners.
 
Stirring things up since the forum hasn't been to exciting lately. I changed the title of this thread a while back to help folks that search. I've also been adding to this thread silently over time as I stumble upon more factory photos of five bar grilles on non-csls, but I figured this was post-worthy.

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/h...w-Expectations---1974-BMW-3-0-CS/3702951.html

The Crevier 4,800 original mile 1974 3.0 CS has a five bar grille on it. Now I suppose it is possible that this car also received a replacement grille during the first 4,500 miles traveled, but it seems to be about as close as one can get to fresh off the showroom floor.
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