1974 Bavaria Automatic Project “Ophelia”

[BavofOntario]

Hey all, Im fairly new to the forum and have been lurking around here for a good few months so I thought to myself “why not?”

To start, my project car is a 1974 BMW Bavaria Automatic in Sahara Brown and I’ve been working in her for the past 9 months now since getting her in December of last year. Now I know for someone as young as I, throwing myself into the deep end with a car like this may not have been the best “first project car” but it’s hard not to express my adoration for the E3 lineup. (and especially the Bavarias.)

So far I’ve managed to clean the whole interior alongside some other things like getting the car running, hooking up the entire emissions system, replacing the mechanical fuel pump, the list goes on… Alongside all of the work I’ve put in so far I did forget to mention that it was a no-keys no-ownership car. (great idea, I know :’) lol) In it’s current state theres a fair amount of body rot on the car, the windshield is cracked, the gas tank is dented and 3/4’s of the exhaust is rotted off as well. Now I do apologize for my shpiel of an introduction so I’ll get into the meat of why I wanted to post this.

As recent as only a few weeks ago my friend and I were attempting to time the engine so that the car is running in tip-top shape to a certain degree at least. In my infinite wisdom I decided to check the valve train through the oil filler cap and had noticed something off by the timing chain. After taking the valve cover off I ended up finding some shards of metal from god-knows-where by the timing chain and camshaft flange bolts(?) This killed my motivation to work on the car but after some thought I’ve decided to try to tackle this head on as my worst fear is having to sell the car or blow even more money on getting the engine rebuilt.

So far, the camshaft is still fine, the timing chain is still on tight and doesnt slap around when cranking at least, and the valves and lifters are completely fine too. I have heard a few metal clangs when starting the engine before, which has made my stomach drop so much but Im holding out hope the car is still revivable.

I’ll put the images I got for the car here to give everyone a better idea of what I’ve been dealing with, and aside from that thank you everyone for the posts and threads in the forum as they’ve been extremely helpful and fairly informative too for someone like me.

P.s
I did forget to mention as well, there are still other issues I would like to get some assistance with like the brakes, A/C Compressor, and some other issues that I can’t recall currently. If anyone has any info for replacements or just recommendations in general it’d be greatly appreciated!

 

[HB Chris]

The four camshaft bolts with m10 heads are secured by two flat pieces of metal and the ends are bent up to ensure the bolts can't back out. One of yours is destroyed so the metal went somewhere.

 

[BavofOntario]

The four camshaft bolts with m10 heads are secured by two flat pieces of metal and the ends are bent up to ensure the bolts can't back out. One of yours is destroyed so the metal went somewhere.

Is that what it is? I think I do recall when I was poking around with my work light in the front of the engine I got a peak at the bottom of the oil sump(?) Basically just the bottom of where the timing chain leads to past the guides. I saw some shinies by the oil down there so Im guessing thats where the rest went. Any suggestions on what I should do next?

 

[StephenZ]

Welcome to the madness! I would caution a little bit on putting too much $ into getting it running yet...the structural underneath would stop me from driving it at all. That rotted out sub frame rail is almost completely gone. I'd be worried about parts of the car completely collapsing. With any kind of budget, that rot is a wallet killer. Not what you want to hear, I know....maybe some other, wiser souls will chime in with better news?
Yeah, definitely your lock plates decided to interfere with normal operations..I wouldn't run the engine until I got the front covers off and cleaned it up and inspected..def don't want metal shards in the oil passages..
there are some people here with cars for sale with a better starting point for body condition that I'd consider before sinking the budget.
Sorry, I don't wanna be the downer guy...just don't wanna see a new, excited person get slammed right from the start..

Forgot to ask, are you a welder and able to do the metal work yourself? If so, that would change things a little...

 

[BavofOntario]

Welcome to the madness! I would caution a little bit on putting too much $ into getting it running yet...the structural underneath would stop me from driving it at all. That rotted out sub frame rail is almost completely gone. I'd be worried about parts of the car completely collapsing. With any kind of budget, that rot is a wallet killer. Not what you want to hear, I know....maybe some other, wiser souls will chime in with better news?
Yeah, definitely your lock plates decided to interfere with normal operations..I wouldn't run the engine until I got the front covers off and cleaned it up and inspected..def don't want metal shards in the oil passages..
there are some people here with cars for sale with a better starting point for body condition that I'd consider before sinking the budget.
Sorry, I don't wanna be the downer guy...just don't wanna see a new, excited person get slammed right from the start..

Forgot to ask, are you a welder and able to do the metal work yourself? If so, that would change things a little...

Yeah I get it about the rot & rust, ever since I got the car my buddy (who’s into GM with an Olds 98 LS) has been up my you-know-what since I got her. Im not a welder by trade but I do have a welder at home thats able to do MIG, TIG and Stick so I trust myself with welding that rust, but the bodywork is something Id rather leave to professionals. I do know with my extremely limited budget that the bodywork and rust repair alone is most likely going to be 20k CAD or so but It’s also something Id rather save up for when I get the chance to so its why Im focusing on getting the car in better running condition as well. I dont have plans on driving it any time soon thankfully but I do really appreciate it and I know the advice Is coming from a well meaning place so I really appreciate it. And I will admit I laughed at the rust with a tear in my eye but the shards were a bit more damaging to my mental.

 

[e9Leveque]

@BavofOntario i understand the desire to want to make something of this. I recently flew across the country to look at a true project car which had some similar issues and was told by those in the know “walk away”. Not what I wanted to hear. I think I would decide on your goals here. Are you trying to learn to wrench on an engine? Are you wanting the car to actually drive safely? Are you envisioning a full restoration at some point? What’s your overall budget yearly and in total?
If this is a “I love these cars and I got this for cheap and I just want to see what I can do with it for $20k and if I have to dump it at the end it will still feel like a fun time” then that’s one thing, but “having a welding machine” and knowing how to do this type of bodywork are a long ways apart. I too have a welding machine and can do some stuff around the house/yard, but these cars are somewhat complex and parts are sometimes hard to find/expensive, as you’ll find out. May be better to take that $20k (as an example) and put it towards a car that is a bit more driver-quality which you can then upgrade slowly over time.

 

[BavofOntario]

@BavofOntario i understand the desire to want to make something of this. I recently flew across the country to look at a true project car which had some similar issues and was told by those in the know “walk away”. Not what I wanted to hear. I think I would decide on your goals here. Are you trying to learn to wrench on an engine? Are you wanting the car to actually drive safely? Are you envisioning a full restoration at some point? What’s your overall budget yearly and in total?
If this is a “I love these cars and I got this for cheap and I just want to see what I can do with it for $20k and if I have to dump it at the end it will still feel like a fun time” then that’s one thing, but “having a welding machine” and knowing how to do this type of bodywork are a long ways apart. I too have a welding machine and can do some stuff around the house/yard, but these cars are somewhat complex and parts are sometimes hard to find/expensive, as you’ll find out. May be better to take that $20k (as an example) and put it towards a car that is a bit more driver-quality which you can then upgrade slowly over time.

I would have say my main goal currently is to get the car safetied, certified and in driving condition. I get what you mean as well and I can say for myself I’ve already found how much of a pain it is trying to find parts for it too, so far the brake system has been my biggest enemy on that end alongside the gas tank. My overall budget I would have to say is 30k overall and at least 2k per year, I know that It’s a high budget for a car that I probably wouldn’t be able to make the money back on but I also see It as a car Id like to hold on to *If* everything goes well.
Now I do want to say as well that I am trying my best to stop myself from throwing money at every problem, and It’s not something I see as one of those youtube videos that car channels tend to do like: “I bought a 1969 Mercury Cougar for $1500! Let’s see if we can get it running and flip it for profit!” Quite frankly Im not the biggest fan of those things at all… I will admit that Im as stubborn as a mule when It comes to my Bavaria and again, I know I instantly threw myself into the deep end by getting this instead of something less expensive with more part availability but I am trying my damndest to learn as much as I can about this car so that I don’t end up making this worse for myself financially. I do appreciate the response as well and It’s hard not to say that I really do want to try to fix this car, even if it takes me years until I can finally drive it. This car means a lot to me so I want to try my best and if I *do* have to scrap or part out the car Its probably the biggest thing I dread thinking about. Also, I hope this wont be read as though Im trying to come off as rude or anything of the sort. Again, I do very much appreciate the honesty.

 

[e9Leveque]

Fair enough. Part of the issue you may encounter, and I put it out there merely so you’re aware, is that for the most part, the cost of a Bavaria part and a coupe part is the same, but the Bavaria is never going to have the value of the coupe. That of course doesn’t mean that restoring a Bavaria isn’t worth it, rather that your overhead room is just a lot less if you don’t want to have a car with $80k of receipts that’s worth $40k. I’m newer to this game, but I think the part that makes everyone concerned here is the frame rust, because that’s expensive no matter the vehicle, and that alone may eat up your $30k. It’s also probably required fixing to make the car “safe”. You can drive a car with holes in the doors and a trunk you can read a newspaper through, but those two frame rails are bearing the weight of the entire vehicle standing, driving and braking. Maybe before you start spending too much time/money on the engine it would be worth getting an estimate for the rust repair. If it’s prohibitive, then maybe you decide to spend some time/money fixing the engine with the plan to move it to another vehicle without the rust, or you just extend your timeline/budget to meet the need

 

[StephenZ]

I’m with e9leveque in this. I’ve restored/rebuilt a bunch of cars and would never touch something in this condition that’s worth so little already. I picked up my Bav 10 years ago for about $3k…zero rust, SoCal car..I’m finally knee deep in it and it still adds up to a TON more receipts than you can imagine. My car already had every original part on it, was straight, and ran. Finding the missing pieces, replacement fenders/doors/etc, is really tough with these because they weren’t well cared for.. also, welding and repairing this type of stuff is waaay different than just having a welder and being able to lay bead here and there..blowing through the thin metal, warping the panels, just making it look right, is a huge skill. I have a couple welders, been at it as a hobby for over 15 years and still have so much to learn.
These cars are totally worth bringing back to life IF the starting point is already really good and you do the work yourself. If you ever want to sell it, it will be worthless unless you’re a pro bodyman already. It’ll be a patched and cobbled mismatch of a learned in project car.. That rotted area is literally holding the car from folding in half..and it’s failing soon. You could easily pick up an almost rust free car for barely anything and be way ahead.
I love being stubborn and saying to hell with it on many things, and I respect your energy, but man..I don’t see this ending well..
I def don’t mean to attack you..I’m genuinely wanting you to have a good experience and not get wrecked on this thing.

 

[BavofOntario]

Fair enough. Part of the issue you may encounter, and I put it out there merely so you’re aware, is that for the most part, the cost of a Bavaria part and a coupe part is the same, but the Bavaria is never going to have the value of the coupe. That of course doesn’t mean that restoring a Bavaria isn’t worth it, rather that your overhead room is just a lot less if you don’t want to have a car with $80k of receipts that’s worth $40k. I’m newer to this game, but I think the part that makes everyone concerned here is the frame rust, because that’s expensive no matter the vehicle, and that alone may eat up your $30k. It’s also probably required fixing to make the car “safe”. You can drive a car with holes in the doors and a trunk you can read a newspaper through, but those two frame rails are bearing the weight of the entire vehicle standing, driving and braking. Maybe before you start spending too much time/money on the engine it would be worth getting an estimate for the rust repair. If it’s prohibitive, then maybe you decide to spend some time/money fixing the engine with the plan to move it to another vehicle without the rust, or you just extend your timeline/budget to meet the need

I’m with e9leveque in this. I’ve restored/rebuilt a bunch of cars and would never touch something in this condition that’s worth so little already. I picked up my Bav 10 years ago for about $3k…zero rust, SoCal car..I’m finally knee deep in it and it still adds up to a TON more receipts than you can imagine. My car already had every original part on it, was straight, and ran. Finding the missing pieces, replacement fenders/doors/etc, is really tough with these because they weren’t well cared for.. also, welding and repairing this type of stuff is waaay different than just having a welder and being able to lay bead here and there..blowing through the thin metal, warping the panels, just making it look right, is a huge skill. I have a couple welders, been at it as a hobby for over 15 years and still have so much to learn.
These cars are totally worth bringing back to life IF the starting point is already really good and you do the work yourself. If you ever want to sell it, it will be worthless unless you’re a pro bodyman already. It’ll be a patched and cobbled mismatch of a learned in project car.. That rotted area is literally holding the car from folding in half..and it’s failing soon. You could easily pick up an almost rust free car for barely anything and be way ahead.
I love being stubborn and saying to hell with it on many things, and I respect your energy, but man..I don’t see this ending well..
I def don’t mean to attack you..I’m genuinely wanting you to have a good experience and not get wrecked on this thing.

I appreciate the sentiments and I get it completely, I think what I'll try to do is get a quote like what e9Leveque said and see how much it'd set me back by. And you don't have to worry either StephenZ I know you're not attempting to attack me lol. I really appreciate the wisdom/hindsight that both of you can offer to me since It's a bit hard to find people in rural Ontario here that actually know a thing or two about these beauts. One thing I will admit and If I may I would like to get both of your honest opinions too but, part of me feels like this is a bit of a stupid opinion for me to have but the other part of me disagrees; I understand the sentiment about spending 80k on a 40k car but I see it as a car I'd really want to keep for years If I can, and by that I mean until I either am forced to sell the car due to financial issues or until I keel over and kick the bucket. I can't help but feel like this thought goes hand-in-hand with my stubbornness but quite frankly I never liked the idea of selling a car for profit If It's a car that I'm planning on keeping for as long as I can. I also did forget to state, If I want to get the car certified and safetied here I'd have to get all the rust removed so the bodywork is 100% going to be a good chunk-of-change compared to my budget.