1974 U.S. Model 3.0 CS Emissions Control / Exhaust Heat Riser / Pipe assembly complete / Now Free

paul cain

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This is removed from the Patricia Mayer project. 34k miles. All stainless. Carefully removed without any damage to the threaded couplings. $0.00 +buyer pays actual shipping costs. I will ship internationally, although this is a bit of an oxymoron.
 

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Does it mean no one cares the air cleanness in the US or all have the emission control in mint condition? ;)
 
In California at least cars 1975 and older are not inspected or tested. These were crude emission devices back in the day and most of us have newer motors anyway so no harm is done. We take climate seriously here in California.
 
In California at least cars 1975 and older are not inspected or tested. These were crude emission devices back in the day and most of us have newer motors anyway so no harm is done. We take climate seriously here in California.

But what is in use instead of these?

Is it really true most of E9s in US have newer M30/M80/S38... motors installed?

What about originality than?

Are the M30 motors from 80's really "green" for environment?

I'm not expecting for classic cars to be green as they are on different rights also in Europe but just asking to learn something more.

And - in the end - why such a part is than for sale, not being scrapped as it is somehow part of technical history of technology from that time?

Sorry, if I'm asking to many questions. I'm a newbie for such a topics.

Greetings
 
Krzysztof - Briefly, US emissions standards were intended to force the use of engine designs that more completly burned fuel, intake systems that required less periodic maintenance and, later, exhaust systems that captured the worst emissions. The intake requirement was intended specifically to reduce the volume of poorly maintained, and therefore relatively dirty motor vehicles on the road (and they did this very well).

Because our engines were already well designed, carburetors can be made to be almost as clean as fuel injection when the engine is fully warmed up on our cars. (Fuel injection is superior for fuel economy because of the ability to more precisely match air fuel mixtures to operating conditions).

A problem with carburetors, however, is that they are dirty when the engine is cold. These devices were an attempt to diminish the cold running problem. They warm the intake manifolds while the engine is cold so as to more quickly move the engine into a range where it operated well and then switch off. They worked to some extent, but then the standards were tightened further and killed off the carburetor.

These systems were not retained primarily because they allow the continued flow of exhaust gases into the intake manifold, drastically changing air fuel mixtures and diminishing performance, when the device that switches them off fails.

Moreover, there is nothing the owner of a carbureted car can do to make their car meet today's emissions standards. We have to accept a compromise. And so we remain focused on the most important thing, which is making sure our engines are well tuned so that they are as efficient and clean as can be during 99% of their operating time, rather than seeking to comply with a transitional and somewhat arbitrary 1974 standard.
 
Thanks Chris for summary. It is a good lesson for someone young. I found it also interesting.

It may be a shock but carbs were around me since my brother has a moped...
Most of communism countries were full of fumes.
Many cars were still with 2-stroke engine (design from 50's). The newest have had only carbs. Injection technology was too expensive.
What is more, factories were still in the big cities causing acid rains (not a joke!).

Due to my hobby I have had a contact with different engines from two-stroke, carbs 4-stroke, mono-injection (Bosch Mono), group injection (Motronic), Diesel and finally multi-point injection (Siemens)...

California was, over the years, the example Worldwide for very strict law regarding air pollution. I know you have had a big problem with fumes as most of rapidly growing countries with specific geographic location.

In the end most of European manufacturers were forced to change the carbs into injection (first mass production - US version Mercedes Benz SL Gullwing) using diesel pump adopted to gasoline.

Later injection due to it's advantages take the lead and together with explosion of electronics/microprocessors changed the automotive industry.

So there is no doubts you've been pioneers as being the biggest car market that time for luxury cars BMW, MB ...were.

It does not change the fact that currently D-Jetronic or L-Jetronic or even Mono (carb with single injector) are very difficult for repairs. This is not a business case for part suppliers to keep them on the shelf.

It is good some cars are genuine including technical details (like emissions control).

Currently it is hard to find carb expert here. Good there is such forum and a lot of books. I know about few person in Poland who can renovate almost every carb. In the past such firms were dozens. Most of the experts are retired or they just gone.

All above (including historical background from Chris) makes the carbs a technical specific for cars up to late 80's (M10 318i carb BMW engine in E30).

---------------------

My questions to Chris were about the classical arena in US and California where there are two approaches:
1. Full originality
2. Engine swaps and mods
versus emission control, technical qualification etc

I know from HB_Chris it was just the 1975, which differentiates the rules for classic cars to be allowed to be used in California or?
 
We have every type of car here but 75 and earlier do not require smog checks and we have never had safety inspections. CA is tough on any car brought here that is1968 and later however, even with the Federal 25 year exemption on imports. Yes, most are pretty original or modified with a more modern engine.
 
My questions to Chris were about the classical arena in US and California where there are two approaches:
1. Full originality
2. Engine swaps and mods
versus emission control, technical qualification etc

I know from HB_Chris it was just the 1975, which differentiates the rules for classic cars to be allowed to be used in California or?
You probably already know this, but in the US, every state has different rules for emissions compliance and compliance testing (or no testing), different safety testing (or no testing), registration and title requirements, etc. These laws can even vary within a state. Here in Washington State, 4 counties require emission testing and the rest don't. Even traffic laws vary from state to state (right turn on red or not for example).
 
We have every type of car here but 75 and earlier do not require smog checks and we have never had safety inspections. CA is tough on any car brought here that is1968 and later however, even with the Federal 25 year exemption on imports. Yes, most are pretty original or modified with a more modern engine.

Thanks.

That means EU made jump forward in air cleanness, that obligatory, regular technical checks done for years (including detailed exhaust fumes analysis).

Currently no entrance for combustion engine cars (including classic cars) to cities is under preparation.

Not sure how it is still in US, but here to be able to have classic car registrations it has to be proven to be mostly original. Swap is no go for being a classic car in most of EU, which is of course not making it impossible, but on regular rules including year-to-year detailed technical check including many poinst from engine, brakes, suspension up to electrical equipment and overall compliance to EU regulations.
 
You probably already know this, but in the US, every state has different rules for emissions compliance and compliance testing (or no testing), different safety testing (or no testing), registration and title requirements, etc. These laws can even vary within a state. Here in Washington State, 4 counties require emission testing and the rest don't. Even traffic laws vary from state to state (right turn on red or not for example).

I suppose so, but I have no idea who, where and what ... We've used California as being treated for years as the most "green-like attitiude" region of the modern world in the XX century.

I can promise I will not be trying to learn by hard all of these regulations.

All just started because no one was really interested in buying emission control equipment. :D ... but it ended up as very interesting discussion thanks to both Chrisses
 
The reason California became a pioneer in emissions regulations is due to the unique sociological and geographical situation of Los Angeles.

The early part of the 20th century saw an explosion of population in the area due to its attractive weather, good industries and vast open space. To accommodate this, a reasonably good public transportation system was developed.

Unfortunately, in the late 30ies and 40ies, the auto industry realized there was a great business opportunity and they worked very successfully at completely dismantling the local rail system so people would buy more cars, tires and gasoline. The problem was that the city is surrounded by mountains. And all the pollution created by these millions of cars became trapped in what is called the Los Angeles basin. When you combine those cars smoke with the fog coming from the ocean, the dirty air would attach itself to the water molecules and this became the infamous smog. Pictures of it can easily be googled.

By the 1960s it became so bad that it turned into a serious health crisis. And that is why the state of California decided it had to do something to curb those emissions. The first new regulations came in 67 or 68 and became progressively more strict. They also required oil companies to remove lead in fuel, giving birth to unleaded fuel. There was a big tightening of requirements in 1974. But most manufacturers could not make engines that burned cleanly enough so they had to add external smog control devices to try and lower emissions such as the one offered here.

To make sure people did not remove these, the state would require yearly smog tests for all cars after a few years.

The problem was that these systems were really crude and made the engines inefficient. As time went on, first engine design became intrinsically much cleaner and more efficient and then the early systems started to fall apart and became hard to keep running. So several years ago, as the number of older cars became lower, they decided that cars before 1975 did not need to pass the yearly smog tests anymore.

In our cases, as explained earlier, many e9 s have the newer fuel injected version of the M30 motors which runs much cleaner than the 70s ones ever did. And those who still have the original carburetor version run very few miles as they are more difficult to maintain and have very poor gas mileage so they are comparatively not a big problem anymore.
 
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Very nice history. Thank you! It was nice to hear from All of You in the thread being just FS one, but where there is an opportnity... why not?

For sure carburetor is more difficult and less precise than injection.

I agree some of emission control are going just in opposite direction to engine efficiency and lifetime.

Good common examples are EGRs in our cars. Engine fed by it ow fumes is being clogged by itself after some time. I can only imagine how this "firefighting" method were inappropriate for cars these days.

One question bothers me. How classic scene in US is treating classic cars with newer engine? Are there specific category or it's just a spare part and no one cares?
 
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