3.0 CS vs CSi values?

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dealhunter0

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I only started seriously looking for a coupe a couple of months ago, but am aware of most of the mechanical differences between the models. I find myself being drawn to CSis due to the bump in horsepower and their greater rarity in the US (although I'm surprised by how many were imported). What do you think a reasonable premium is to pay for a relatively rust free, unrestored CSi vs an equivalent condition CS? Let's say the benchmark is a $15k 3.0 CS.

Thanks for any insight.
 
of course it will be a world of opinions out there, pros and cons,

i own a CS, and original 1971 euro, with zeniths, i will never change it for a CSI, nor install webers or others

i suppose that if you like the e9, the most pure original, would be a CS, the kick of the carburetted engine is a plus, and is only 20h.p. less

regards
 
dealhunter - where are you located?

just my observations, true csi's are rarer in the usa. does that mean they are more valuable??? perhaps more desirable ... maybe. my guess is that they have more reported HP due to the higher compression ratio of the euro engine - i must confess i haven't looked at the HP ratings of a euro cs.

to me the cs / csi values are more determined by condition. we have seen more 3.0cs sell for high values this past year than csi ... but i think that was largely due to restored original condition. i am thinking of the ceylon car in norcal, and the silver car in st.louis. then there is jabberjaw which has a 3.5L conversion. in the really nice driver condition, i haven't seen a lot of difference in value - maybe 10 to 15%. you also have to consider that most orig. euro cars didn't have AC.

my 2 cents - your mileage may vary.
scott
 
The CSi is Probably worth a little bit more but not definitely?

The CSi is probably worth more because it has more power but they also have the "Being a European" model and therefore "Rusty" stigma. And most CSi dont have Leather Seats, Power Windows, Air etc so they might be and probably are harder to sell...

Also ALL of the E9 experts I speak to insist that the original D-Jet Injection on the CSi is junk and not worth buying the ridiculously expensive repair parts. They say install a 3.5 and junk the CSi engine. The carbed models are easy to fix and cheap parts are everywhere...
 
Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the small boost in performance is canceled out by the higher cost of repairs and higher likelihood of rust.

RSporsche I'm in norcal so you would think I'd have a decent selection of rust-free cars. Just have to be patient!
 
dealhunter,

tell us what your preferences are - color, condition, price range + mods / originality ... and i'm sure there will be people on this forum that will steer you in the right direction / send you good things to consider.

good luck
scott
 
Like rsporsche said, it is really all about condition. I haven't seem much of a price difference between any non-CSL E9 for a given condition, aside from US big bumper cars. Those seem to drive the price down a bit.
 
execmalibu said:
The CSi is probably worth more because it has more power but they also have the "Being a European" model and therefore "Rusty" stigma. And most CSi dont have Leather Seats, Power Windows, Air etc so they might be and probably are harder to sell...

Also ALL of the E9 experts I speak to insist that the original D-Jet Injection on the CSi is junk and not worth buying the ridiculously expensive repair parts. They say install a 3.5 and junk the CSi engine. The carbed models are easy to fix and cheap parts are everywhere...
Click to expand...

i do not intend to be ...

but how can you say that the csi is better, and then propose to swap the engine ?

at least it is ....funny?
 
Willing to spend up to 25k but less would be better. My top criteria is a rust-free body (for an e9) - either a very dry original car or one that's been previously restored but needs some sorting, which has brought it into my price range. I'm happy to tinker with mechanicals and the interior but hope to own the car long-term and have neither the time nor the funds for a bare metal restoration. Mods are fine as long as they've been well done, but I probably wouldn't be willing to pay much extra.

I love fjord, like polaris and would take just about any color if the body is clean and the price is right. Prefer manual, but am fine doing the swap.

Sound doable? There was a polaris car in Modesto that looked like it checked all the boxes but somebody beat me to it (ny3.0cs)!

rsporsche said:
dealhunter,

tell us what your preferences are - color, condition, price range + mods / originality ... and i'm sure there will be people on this forum that will steer you in the right direction / send you good things to consider.

good luck
scott
Click to expand...
 
i think its doable. i agree with your top priority - no rust, especially structural rust at the rockers, firewall, floor + shock towers. you should be able to find a good car that needs a little TLC for between 12k + 20k that fits your criteria. we all know you can spend 25k to 50k for a really nice car.

keep us posted and i know people will share leads with you ... be sure to follow this forum daily.

good luck
scott
 
In the UK - the CSi is much more desirable than a CS and therefore more expensive - if a good one.

Always been a hierarchy of desirability and expense - CSL - top dog, CSi no 2 then CS and last CSA.

I would never buy a CS over a CSi if they were on a par in same condition
 
Here in the USA the CSi is likely to not have a/c or leather interior so those features could even out or increase the value of a CS over a Csi for certain buyers (myself included).
 
I would sell my 1972 3.0CS (Fjord) Sunroof for $24,000

I might consider selling my 1972 3.0CS Sunroof for $24,000 it is a Calif car and is Fjord Blue... The car has a nice leather interior and AC

[email protected]
 

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My opinion, answered by a question- Which would you rather have- 2002 or 2002tii given identical interior otherwise? Added cost of ownership argument is sour grapes.
 
+1 with Ed G on this one... by the way, every CSI (and probably most of them in the US) I've ever owned came from Italy originally which is really not much different than California from a rust standpoint.

I still don't get the aversion to the injection on these cars- it's stupid simple and makes great power- now stepping down from my D-jet soap box.
 
Ed G said:
My opinion, answered by a question- Which would you rather have- 2002 or 2002tii given identical interior otherwise? Added cost of ownership argument is sour grapes.
Click to expand...

hang on a minute. tii is touring improved and injected. not just injected. the tii has different brakes + struts, a boost from 105hp to 135hp. the csi has 200 hp compared to 180 for the cs. slightly more torque. hardly the same comparison as a 2002 to a 2002tii.
 
E911 said:
+1 with Ed G on this one... by the way, every CSI (and probably most of them in the US) I've ever owned came from Italy originally which is really not much different than California from a rust standpoint.

I still don't get the aversion to the injection on these cars- it's stupid simple and makes great power- now stepping down from my D-jet soap box.
Click to expand...

i'm all for injection. but not a 40 year old d-jet. i would much rather have a newer motronic ecu with much better circuitry. let's talk about rust - italy like california? what's the old line, karmann invented rust, then licensed it to the italians. (LOL) for me, its all about condition ... if you have 2 cars with exactly the same options and exactly the same condition ... i would go with the csi. but if we are talking restored, the cs can have the same horsepower as the csi. if you rebuild the motor, and the majority of 40 year old engines are due for a rebuild ... you can make the same power. with carbs, you can more easily adjust for the improvements to the engine than you can with d-jet. its even easier with newer injection systems, plus you can put a custom chip in and adjust the fuel mapping and greatly improve performance. bottom line, its all about the condition of the car in terms of value. rarity helps, primarily if you are talking obsessive originality.
 
again, original non-modified cars (not many of those around) should be the baseline for any comparison... after you start moving things around there's no way to compare so it's probably a mute point and not worth arguing about- it's our duty to save them all isn't it?
 
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Ok, I'll be the Diva here; I think the CSi looks better under the hood. The injected intake runners/manifold is more visually appealing than the standard carb'd airbox IMHO. HOWEVER, triple carbs look the best.
 
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