3.0 CS vs CSi values?

CSteve

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I went from carbs to injection when I started taking my coupe to Driver's Schools. Fifteen years, many laps, long, long trips to the tracks. Never a pause, hiccup,
hesitation. And I have not had to do ANYTHING to the system all those long hard years.

Thank you BMW
 

Mario L.

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Ignoring the debate injected, non injected, and the various carburation selections available for these cars I believe the real value in the E9 Coupes is all around body and chassis condition long before you start to consider the mechanical differences.

Comparing body work and mechanical work, the driveline on any E9 is cheap in comparison to the body work. To be fair, do this on a commercial retail price point done by the professionals who know an E9.

Yes, a solid unrusted original car is worth more, "to the collector". But after a professional life time of working on German high line cars, I've seen rusty cars from CA and AZ and solid cars that come from Italy and New England. These are old cars and condition is entirely dependant on care and use. Drive a car in the dusty southwest, then take a few vacation trips when it rains and that car will waste away like one driven in New England. The dry southwestern dust will absorb the moisture and hold it for a long time . .

The long and short of it, These are all OLD cars, and a professionally restored car done correctly WITH the protective work done to preserve it going forward, is a far better investment for the average owner that wants to use the car and not keep it as a collection piece.
We've recently completed 2 major body restorations that were done by another well known shop here in the US within the past 12 years. I will only say that the owners were shocked with what we found, and sadly it cost them many dollars to correct.

Generally, cars discussed on BMW internet forums by forum members are all to often undervalued.
IMO, any E9 that is solid and original, and not presently a car with structural rust is worth more money than where I've seen anyone here place the value. These cars are easily worth more than $25-30K solely on body condition! Scarey to a few of you here I'm sure. It's my feeling that a turn key driver, with no mechanical issues, no structural or rust through anywhere is a $40K+ car all day long. And the show quality driver is well beyond that.
Seems folks here place that car at $25K . which makes no snese when it costs tons more to build / restore one to that condition.

Consider that a very simple repaint on a CS Coupe is $12K PLUS! That's a car w/o rust work, disassembled, stripped to bare metal and redone, professionally, and assuming that you are not replacing all the trim. Add to this door , hood and trunklid gaskets $1K.

E9 CS Coupes are as much labor to restore as a MB 300SL, or a complete 1967 911S. Do a comparison in value when you're all done, and know that the CS costs as much to do.

I ask that you all consider where the real value of these cars is . .and to compare . .lets look to another BMW milestone car that has skyrocketed in value. The forums for this car also hold down its value .. One of my own favorites the E30 M3 . .like the E9, low volume production, a coupe, a huge race winning history, and expensive to own and repair . .

Like the E30 M3, The E9 has a very passionate following of owners, and is also a model that has recently enjoyed numerous magazine articles and positive accolades from writers and drivers.
Possibly the E30 M3 has a bit more market demand, but the owners of the choice cars have worked to move the prices up. Marketing the select cars at higher prices and advertising them outside of the "club" market and away from the forums.

This is the only real dedicated forum for the E9 on the US side of the www, and there are international members. Many of the real players with the BMW marque read here but don't partake.
Think seriously about the value of these cars. There are too many comments here that are negative towards cars, to many conclusions drawn by viewing pics on your computer screen . .negative comments only hurt all of us, and these may hurt you when you go to sell your car . . . .

Thank you!
Mario L.

www.VSR1.com
 

Arde

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Well I am flattered that some real players of the BMW marque read us, I will have to watch with my language then. Is BMW heiress Susanne Klatter reading perhaps? Or even posting under an assumed moniker? Maybe I am Susanne Klatter?

I am not that obsessed about valuation for as long as intend to drive and enjoy the car. It would be more significant if we get to a point that it is not practical to operate the car due to parts or skilled labor becoming less available or affordable. At that point I see little point in owning the car.

The other intriguing question we explored once is if these cars would actually depreciate when a new generation arrives that has no nostalgia for these models as they were not born when the cars were new. How many 25 year olds do we have here? X_Atlas and thats it.
 

Beemer70

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12 yr old response....(as we all were)

BMW 3.0 CSi - 0 to 60 mph - 7.5 / Top Speed 139 mph - TOP TRUMP - HURRAH!

BMW 3.0 CS - 0 to 60 mph - 8.0 / Top Speed 133 mph - bleeeuuurrcchhh....Looooooooooooooooozzzerrr

Ok - so CSL did 0 to 60 mph in 7.1 but Top Speed only 133 mph...so

CSi the WINNER!!!!

Who wants a CS on yer boot arse when u can have a CSi !!!!

Hoooreye CSi !!!
 
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x_atlas0

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Well I am flattered that some real players of the BMW marque read us, I will have to watch with my language then. Is BMW heiress Susanne Klatter reading perhaps? Or even posting under an assumed moniker? Maybe I am Susanne Klatter?

I am not that obsessed about valuation for as long as intend to drive and enjoy the car. It would be more significant if we get to a point that it is not practical to operate the car due to parts or skilled labor becoming less available or affordable. At that point I see little point in owning the car.

The other intriguing question we explored once is if these cars would actually depreciate when a new generation arrives that has no nostalgia for these models as they were not born when the cars were new. How many 25 year olds do we have here? X_Atlas and thats it.

I rather doubt they will depreciate since the E9's biggest selling point isn't nostalgia (I'm looking at you, Fiat Spyder) but the vehicle's beauty. It is simply a very pretty car. Moreover, it is a very pretty car by the standards of the 60s and 70s, when most of the very pretty cars were made. Heck, it is the main reason I went and bought one. I didn't know about the racing history, I didn't know about the financial history, I didn't know it was a crazy amount of money to initially purchase, I just knew it was one of the prettiest cars I had ever seen.

I was already a bimmerhead but I didn't know about the E9 when I decided I wanted one. The issue then becomes exposure. Given the relatively steady number of articles in various rags/websites about the E9 over the last 5 years, that seems to be improving. If it keeps up, I'm confident there will be a decent next group of buyers.
 

deQuincey

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...
This is the only real dedicated forum for the E9 on the US side of the www, and there are international members. Many of the real players with the BMW marque read here but don't partake.
Think seriously about the value of these cars. There are too many comments here that are negative towards cars, to many conclusions drawn by viewing pics on your computer screen . .negative comments only hurt all of us, and these may hurt you when you go to sell your car . . . .
www.VSR1.com

i know that you are trying to tell us something but....I can not understand...

they do not partake.... ? ok, so they can continue reading, reading is good

the comments are negative ? well it is implicit in a comparison, when you compare two things it happens !

is not that bad...
 

deQuincey

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12 yr old response....(as we all were)

BMW 3.0 CSi - 0 to 60 mph - 7.5 / Top Speed 139 mph - TOP TRUMP - HURRAH!

BMW 3.0 CS - 0 to 60 mph - 8.0 / Top Speed 133 mph - bleeeuuurrcchhh....Looooooooooooooooozzzerrr

Ok - so CSL did 0 to 60 mph in 7.1 but Top Speed only 133 mph...so

CSi the WINNER!!!!

Who wants a CS on yer boot arse when u can have a CSi !!!!

Hoooreye CSi !!!

so the key is 0.5 sec less, and 6 mph more ?
well...
 

deQuincey

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Well I am flattered that some real players of the BMW marque read us, I will have to watch with my language then. Is BMW heiress Susanne Klatter reading perhaps? Or even posting under an assumed moniker? Maybe I am Susanne Klatter?

I am not that obsessed about valuation for as long as intend to drive and enjoy the car. It would be more significant if we get to a point that it is not practical to operate the car due to parts or skilled labor becoming less available or affordable. At that point I see little point in owning the car.

The other intriguing question we explored once is if these cars would actually depreciate when a new generation arrives that has no nostalgia for these models as they were not born when the cars were new. How many 25 year olds do we have here? X_Atlas and thats it.


+1 on the first part
not so much worried by the new generation's taste about cars, I was born when this car was new, but i had never seen one of these in the streets until i saw mine
nevermind
 

WALTER

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I only started seriously looking for a coupe a couple of months ago, but am aware of most of the mechanical differences between the models. I find myself being drawn to CSis due to the bump in horsepower and their greater rarity in the US (although I'm surprised by how many were imported). What do you think a reasonable premium is to pay for a relatively rust free, unrestored CSi vs an equivalent condition CS? Let's say the benchmark is a $15k 3.0 CS.

Thanks for any insight.

Maybe a grand, maybe a little more? That figure is based on nothing other than the premium I would be willing to pay. The bigger factor for me would be the transmission and if it had a sunroof. Aside from the condition of the paint/body, I would pay a higher premium for a manual, more for a 5spd, and more still for a coupe with a sunroof. I know there are a lot of headaches that come with sunroofs, but having owned coupes with and without, the ability to open the roof adds to the driving experience.
 

iconoclast6

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The long and short of it, These are all OLD cars, and a professionally restored car done correctly WITH the protective work done to preserve it going forward, is a far better investment for the average owner that wants to use the car and not keep it as a collection piece.

Like the E30 M3, The E9 has a very passionate following of owners, and is also a model that has recently enjoyed numerous magazine articles and positive accolades from writers and drivers. Possibly the E30 M3 has a bit more market demand, but the owners of the choice cars have worked to move the prices up. Marketing the select cars at higher prices and advertising them outside of the "club" market and away from the forums. Think seriously about the value of these cars. There are too many comments here that are negative towards cars, to many conclusions drawn by viewing pics on your computer screen . .negative comments only hurt all of us, and these may hurt you when you go to sell your car . . . .

Thank you!
Mario L.

www.VSR1.com

Agreed!! But Mario's missive requires that I tell this story about how value equates to value....

Now I'm just an average enthusiast, with my only pedigree being a previous owner of a '76 2002 and a '90 535il before I went searching for an e9. I was ecstatic to happen upon a project shell that had just been rust-proofed. Otherwise, it would be be difficult to locate any coupe in the country with any certainty about rust going forward. Flash forward a few happy years into my e9 ownership, I found myself rolling into Mario's shop after much positive word of mouth. I realized that my e9, being an old car, would need careful and considerate preventive and preservative care. After looking over my Coupe, we decided on work to be done and he promptly LENT ME HIS PERSONAL E30 M3, for what turned out to be nearly 2 months given his current load, with the caveat of "if you wreck it"... I own your coupe!! To this day, I'm not sure if Mario detected my over the top feeling of glee and peril. Clearly though, Mario understood value. OMG ....what a powerful, yet nimble beast!! Needless to say, I was relieved and disappointed when I got my Coupe back. It became clear from driving Mario's E30 and from the work he performed for my Coupe, of what value looks and feels like. True, it ain't cheap. Most of us already know about the differing views of value from various publications as opposed to the actual reality concerning coupes. But whether we have coupes as collector pieces or not, I think value starts as Mario said "with how we ourselves characterize our classics." If anyone has a chance for further validation, you may want to look up this fella by the name of Roy Wicklund who owns both a 1991 e30 M3 and a 1972 2002tii which are both gorgeous and awesomely track capable. Whenever I see Roy and either of his cars (both restored by Mario), I'm nearly overcome with the idea of offering him a blank check...
 

Arde

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Now I am thoroughly confused. I read that original is just for a collector while a good restoration from a reputable place is better for the owner that wants to drive it regardless of weather and location, but then again reputable restorations were in shocking condition after 12 years of driving them, they can be fixed at great expense where the paint alone is 12k, but I guess we should wait another 12 years to judge if the work of one shop holds better than the work of another shop for driven restorations.

Yes, I hear the plea for higher valuations, and I get it that valuation may not affect the owner that doesn't plan to sell, but valuation will determine how many coupes are restored vs. condemned because of the high cost of parts and labor.

As for sustained valuation based on 1960s beauty I agree, but to be frank what we have is an Italian looking car with German engineering. If it were for the looks alone there are lots of charming Italian 60-70s cars that catch the eye. I just run into this Fiat on my trip that could make a nice week-end car, and it is kind of a Verona color to boot...BTW, it was for sale.

(Attached Fiat pictures, I love the interior)
 

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