3 CS's available for sale (Long Island)

[JFENG]

Guys,
I saw 3 coupes for sale on Long Island this weekend. It was a bit of a long drive, particularly due to the holiday traffic. Based on the descriptions of these cars I had already prepared 2 big cashiers checks with me (80% of asking price) plus a big wad of 100's.

But, I don't believe in buying a car without seeing it in person. It's not a question of trust but an issue that words are subjective and my expectations are usually different than the seller's. The cars were inspected at a nice BMW shop called the Little Garage. The owner was most gracious in opening his shop on a holiday weekend so I can see them. BTW, it's a nice shop and the owner is a very decent, honest guy. Based on what I saw, I'd recommend this shop for mechanical work (but I've no direct experience with their work).

Car #1: 1972 3.0CSa
Car #2: 1972 3.0CS
Car #3: 1972 3.0 CSi

Car #1: Pretty car (well all coupes are pretty). Looked all stock to me.
INTERIOR: front seats well worn, with signficant cracking and some tears.
Probably time for new leather. Otherwise, very nice interior.
MECHANICAL: didn't drive it, but based on the records I think it's rock solid.
I also didn't want to burn up the shop owner's entire afternoon as I was
interrupting his weekend with his family.
BODY: This is always the most critical areas for me as major body work is the one thing
I cannot easily do at home. This car has not been restored, although
it has hand some significant and major body work.
RUST: owner was 100% honest about what
I would find. It has new floors/sills and as expected, the underside
was free of rust (AFAI could tell): I only found rust
(1) around the base of the rear window
(2) at the bottom of the outer fenders, just aft of the wheel openings,
(3) passenger door near the front and bottom seams.
CHROME: replacing chrome on any vintage European car can quickly
end up costing you thousands. The chrome on this car was very
good, with at most very very slight pitting on the underside of the
front and rear bumpers. None of it was show quality, but it probably
wasn't that good when it came out of the factory anyway.
PAINT: well, it's very pretty if you don't look carefully. It'll wow all the dad's
at the post office or supermarket. But, to be honest with you, it's not what
I consider good paint work. It's shiny/glossy and all that, but it was trim-on
so it will start flaking around the rubber seals at some point in the future.
Also, paint prep was a bit hasty and there were some areas where you could
see coarse sanding scratches under the top coats. This sort of thing is harder to
see on a Polaris car than a car of a darker color, so it might not bother some
owners. But, I can't accept a job where the paint shop saved $300 by
skipping a guide coat and light blocking with 400 grit. For my purposes,
I'd have to pull all the trim and have the entire exterior repainted.

This would be a good car for someone who wants a nice looking coupe with
no rust in the structurally important areas.

Little Garage
456 West Jericho Turnpike,
Huntington, NY
631-673-1700

I'll post pictures in a followup post.

Reviews of the other cars coming later today.

John

 

[JFENG]

Pics of the CSA

Car #1: 1972 3.0CSa
(snip)

Little Garage
456 West Jericho Turnpike,
Huntington, NY
631-673-1700

Pictures and more details
#1: 1972 CSA
Seller is asking around $16k. If you're goal is to have a solid, very attractive driver with auto and working AC, this car fits the bill. It could be bought today and driven for many many years as is if driven only on sunny days and kept in a dry (non-humid) garage.

To build a near concourse quality car, this should only be considered a starting point. At the very least, the exterior/trim and engine bay should be stripped all the way down then properly repainted and reassembled (w rust repairs to the rear window, front outside fender and p-door). If you don't need a true nut & bolt restoration, an investment of $10k to $15k and some elbow grease would make it a stunning, clean, coupe.

I forgot to mention, the chrome is in really good condition with only very slight pitting. It would clean up beautifully with some chrome polish.

 

[JFENG]

more pics

more pics of the '72 CSA

 

[JFENG]

1972 csi

This is car #3:

Overall, I was impressed by this car.

BODY: I couldn't find any signs of rust other than 2 minor areas.
First, a small spot around the body plug (see pic "d_floor") where the
undercoating was compromised. When this happens, it will start to trap
water between the undercoat and the body, which greatly accelerates
rust formation. I'm guessing this spot is very very small and doesn't extend
beyond the flange area of the body plug. Second, it looked like
a little surface rust was just barely starting area along the bottom edge of
the sills. Something that should be relatively easy/cheap to address. On the
top side, it was very clean. I couldn't find a single bubble.
The repaint had good prep work and they did a nice job of cleaning up the
entire engine bay (removed the OEM asphalt pads, metal looks clean and
solid). Even the underside of the hood had been resprayed & no signs
of any seam corrosion. Overall, really nice body ... with a couple caveats.

ISSUES: The outer rockers were held on with an assortment of screws. I'm
sorry I forgot to take pics of this. The screws run along the top edge of the rocker.
I imagine this makes it easy to remove the outer sills ...maybe for cleaning
and regular inspections? The lower front/rear valence areas were not done
with the same attention paid to the rest of the exterior body work. These areas
had factory rock chip under the paint. Some of this had been sanded smooth, others
partially sanded, and other areas not even cleaned up before paint was applied.
It wouldn't be a bit deal to remove the front air dam, bumpers and then redo
these areas properly, but they ought to be redone to match the rest of the car.
One last, nit-picky, anal, unreasonable thing. The paint was shiny but not as smooth
as I'd expect. It was clearly not a budget paint job, but it just lacked that glossy,
smooth, mirror finish that I'd want on any coupe I owned. I'm guessing it could be
wet sanded and polished out (remove trim first!) with a 2 days in really good
body shop.
MECHANICAL: it looked very solid and records show diligent maintenance. The
Alpina rear axle cooler was ... very cool! I didn't drive this car because it had a
dead battery. But, from the maint records I'll bet this car is 100% reliable and
goes like stink!

INTERIOR: rear seat was really nice, fronts a bit worn down. Might come back very
nicely with a week of effort using a Leatherique restoration kit. It has a set of aux
gauges mounted in the center of the IP (mounted to the vertical wood section).
Perfect for a car that might go to the track and get driven hard and fast. The IP
was otherwise in great shape. Personally, I'd get new door trim because the car
currently has 6.5" aftermarket speakers mounted above the map pockets, and
I thought they were a little obnoxious. The car as 4pt harnesses installed. You
can see the floor anchor points in the pics of the undercarriage. I would install a
set of Scheel sport seats and put in a fresh set of 4pt belts.

CHROME: Straight all around. Would clean up very nicely with very very
minimal pitting in a few areas. The rear Alpina badge is cracked ...

Overall, this is a clean, rust free, car that is perfect for a driving enthusiast.
For my purposes, I'd have to fix the rockers, and f/r valances. If the paint didn't polish out well, I'd strip and redo the exterior paint, underside of the hood and trunk interior (not v glossy and smooth). A new Alpine steering wheel can be had for $450. This car would show well with with club members as-is, and with $5k-$6k + elbow grease it could be a fantastic coupe. Not a nut & bolt concourse car but a super clean, no excuses, top-of-the-category driver.

Owner was asking in the vicinity of $20k. If your goal is to spend $30k and have an awesome totally sorted coupe, this is the one for you.

John

 

[sfs24]

John, are all three available at the little garage or is that where you happened to meet up with the sellers?

 

[JFENG]

All three have private owners, but little garage

John, are all three available at the little garage or is that where you happened to meet up with the sellers?

is helping the owners find new homes.

 

[JFENG]

Car #2: 1972 CS

Car #2: This car was really interesting. On the plus side, it is an all original, unrestored coupe that apprears to have zero rust. And I don't mean it was rusty and then repaired. It appears to have never gotten rusty in the first place.

BTW, I brought a paint thickness gauge but didn't use it because I was trying not to keep Matt of Little Garage away from his family for too long. Normally, I'd have spent a solid 30-40min with each car, checking the entire body for bondo and doing a detailed test drive. But, this was a holiday weekend.

BODY: Upper body - No rust, really. When I stuck my hand up into that little pocket behind and above the front wheels (the pocket that traps water/sand/mud), it had just a thin, thin layer of fine road grit. What a pleasant surprise. Clearly only driven on dry days and on nice roads. I could not tell if there was any rust on the undercarriage because it had a VERY heavy and rough layer of newish undercoating. I'm talking thicker than the frosting on a cheap cake from Pathmark (see pics). But, given the condition of the upper body, it's a reasonable assumption it's rust free down below. There are some door dings and slight waviness on both sides, and 1 nickel sized ding on the hood (see pic).

1 problem: The paint work on this car was ... unfortunately not up to the quality of the underlying structure. It took all of 5 seconds to see areas where coarse sanding scratches under the silver paint. Admittedly, these are harder to seen on Polaris, but they’re readily visible to anyone who knows anything about paint and good body work. For me, it says the shop that painted it skipped the guide-coat and blocking or the top coat bled thru the primer/surfaces and brought out scratches in the skim coat. It’s a real shame because the paint itself is glossy, and would be fabulous if you spent a grand on a professional wet sand and polish. Polishing, of course would make the scratches even more visible. Painting is ALL about prep-work, guys. The solid structure of this car cries out for a trim-off, strip and repaint ($10,000).

CHROME: Slight pitting around the quarter windows, etc. Slightly hazy windscreen chrome (easily polished up). Slight corrosion starting on the bottom side of the rear bumper. Fine for a super clean driver, but needs rechroming to be a #1 car (bumpers, front fender side-grills, etc). Maybe $1000 for everything?
MECH: This car doesn't get driven much and it shows. It stumbled badly when I tried to drive it. I'll bet it would be fine with a carb rebuild and full tuneup. 2 days in Matts garage would probably sort it out. Worst case, the carb bases are warped, and you should just go with some new Weber 38’s

INTERIOR: The front seats shown moderate wear and aging, but at a stage where it could easily be brought back to near new condition with a couple of weekends of elbow grease and $150 in supplies from Leatherique. One other weird thing. The car was stored in a facility where it got moldy (inside and out). My wife and 1 kid have bad asthma, and I’ll bet they’d react badly to the interior (even though it looked all cleaned up. I’d pull all the carpets and treat them (very mild bleach solution), and check the seat bottom padding. Headliner, surprisingly, looked fine. Maybe someone already got to it with a brush and cleaning solution containing a slight amount of bleach.

This car is an incredible opportunity if you want to build a 100pt car, for not a lot of money (<$5K excluding the issues with the paint). Obviously, a nut and bolt restoration would cost much much more, but this car would be a great foundation for that level of restoration too.

John

 

[JFENG]

Car #2: 1972 CS

more pics, passenger side

 

[JFENG]

Car #2: 1972 CS

More pics, chrome, bumper etc.

 

[verde2002]

So now that you had the opportunity to inspect the cars, were they a 98 point car and a true Alpina as originally claimed by sellers?

 

[JFENG]

Owners were honest and sincere...

So now that you had the opportunity to inspect the cars, were they a 98 point car and a true Alpina as originally claimed by sellers?

The shop that maintains these cars suggested there were aspects of the 1972 CS that were 98pts. I think that was a little optimistic, but parts of that car were really really nice. But, I was more out of alignment with the shop's assessments for areas described as "very good". But then again, everyone has a different expectation of what "good" means, which is why I like going with the #1/#2 system. The definition of what a #1 means is, for me, fairly unambiguous.

The owner of the Alpina never claimed it was a true Alpina. I checked my notes from talking to him and he said it has a lot of true Alpina upgrades but wasn't a car sold by Alpina. If it were a B2, I'd pay double/triple his asking price. But, the Alpina could be an fantastic coupe after the issues I noted are dealt with (redo the rockers, fix the body work around the front/rear valences, rub out the paint, new door trim, respray the underside of the hood and spare tire well).

Overall, both the sellers and the little garage are honest nice folks. The cars were just not quite what I was looking for in terms of condition. I've seen and just missed on coupes that were much better in the chassis department for less money, and I guess I'm waiting for another one of those to come around.

 

[Stan]

CS Registry

Did you happen to get VIN numbers so we can register them?

 

[JFENG]

Registering other people's cars

Did you happen to get VIN numbers so we can register them?

Stan,
Good point. I'm still kind of new to this registry thing and I'm not sure the current owners want me entering their info into the registry. I've told them about it so they have the option should they so chose.

When I bought my E-type, someone on the Jag board registered me within 24 hours on www.xkedata.com. Nice, but to bad they got a bunch of the information wrong. I would have preferred it if that person had suggested I enter my car into the registry. Maybe it's silly, but given how anxious he was to get my car data into the registry, I'm hoping to someday meet him and ask him to correct the registry.


John

 

[Stan]

Stan,
Good point. I'm still kind of new to this registry thing and I'm not sure the current owners want me entering their info into the registry. I've told them about it so they have the option should they so chose.

When I bought my E-type, someone on the Jag board registered me within 24 hours on www.xkedata.com. Nice, but to bad they got a bunch of the information wrong. I would have preferred it if that person had suggested I enter my car into the registry. Maybe it's silly, but given how anxious he was to get my car data into the registry, I'm hoping to someday meet him and ask him to correct the registry.


John

Corrections are easier with our registry. I hope you buy one of the three. The pictures I saw were of a beautiful fjord coupe.