'72 CS Resurection - real mess

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Vbigdog

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Early stages of bringing a new-to-me 1972 3.0CS vin 2240100 back to life, last titled in 1995. It is a real mess.

Initial list:
Alternator: Battery was hooked up backwards (positive ground) by PO. I've removed toasted voltage regulator, burnt harness, and alternator. Ordered an AL45x from bnrparts (thanks to this forum, great guys, knowledgable) Internally regulated 80 (or 85?) amp version. BNR is including a wiring skecth. Ive also ordered, but not yet received a schematic from ebay. Replaced battety cables +/-. I'm considering getting the schematic tatoo'd to my forehead... A check for shorts says my problem(s) are not limited to alt and reg. Will dig into the short(s) when schematic arrives.

Fuel tank: leak at front edge of seem.

Power Steering pump: screaming

Front Wheel Bearings: 3/8 " play at spindle. So bad, im expecting, but not yet confirmed the spindles may be scored and ruined.

Brake fluid resevouir: empty, but brakes are solid. Suspect clutch slave cylinder.

Drivers side window: stuck 4" down. Switch wiring frankensteiened big time.

Missing: air cleaner housing, replaced by cheap aftermarket filters.

Misc wires disconnected in engine bay

Throttle linkage (weber carbs) is worn, needs replacement linkage joints. Good source? Mcmaster ?

Head: has a "73" forging stamp om the side, near the front. Has this head been replaced? How can i chase down/interpret forge casting numbers?

Much more to come. Thank you (Steve) and all for comments and suggestions.

Tom
Marblehead, Massachusetts
"
 
And....the Body? You can't call an E9 a mess till you describe how decrepit the structure is.

Enjoy the resurrection
 
Nicad said:
And....the Body? You can't call an E9 a mess till you describe how decrepit the structure is.

Enjoy the resurrection
Click to expand...

Body is, as far as i can tell, pretty decent. It appears the wiring and engine issues have kept this car in a dry garage for 15 or 20 years. Floors and under carriage are remarkably solid. Inner front fenders and trunk is near perfect. Im sure there is rust someplace, but i haven't yet looked very hard, or found it. Im still on the first date...and a little punch drunk with my cute date.
 
air filer housing

Hi Tom,

If its been dry and the rust is "manageable" (whatever that means), sorting out what you described should not be that hard.

I've got a pretty good air filter housing you can have if you want. This will give me an excuse to exercise my coupe and drive up your way (I am in Canton) some weekend. I'm tied up this weekend and next however.

Clutch slave cylinder - I am told that these are NLA locally but available in Germany for huge $. You can get rebuild kits for them. Others on the board have retrofitted other models. Your brake lines might also be suspect after all of this time...

TodB
 
Vbigdog said:
Misc wires disconnected in engine bay
Click to expand...

That might not be a problem. The original Zenith carbs had some electrical connections, so when e9's get converted to Webers, there are some dangling wires. Make sure they are properly insulated, but there may be nothing to connect them to.

Head: has a "73" forging stamp om the side, near the front. Has this head been replaced? How can i chase down/interpret forge casting numbers?
Click to expand...

This is pretty common - the early heads tended to crack. Yea, if your's is marked '73, then it is from a '73 BMW. Note that the head is a casting, not a forging.
 
The front outter wheel bearing was siezed, with what once was greese, now is black charred dust. It took a 2 jaw whel puller to remove the rotor.

The spindle is scored. Spindle cleaned, the new bearing will not slide onto the spindle.

Should i assume / plan to replace the otherwise working strut? I'm pretty sure the spindle won't clean up with emery cloth.


Separately: there is a 3/8" coolant line (orphaned) originating under the #6 intake, near the back of the firewall. It is cuunently plugged by PO. A look at the cooling diagram and emmission diagram came up empty. This engine may have started life in another car(automatic?). Where should this line terminate?
 
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The 3/8 hose went to the rear Zenith carb choke pulloff mechanism which then carried on to the front carb one then connected to the bottom of the front carb intake manifold next to another hose inlet so you should find a plug there too. What kind of carbs are on there now - Webers?

If you need another strut I bought a used one from 02 Salvage in California - ask for Marshall - it was around a hundred bux or so. If not try carl nelson, coupeking, or coupeguy or maybe someone here has one. Post in the parts section.
 
Next steps: Weber sync (I think...)

Recent activity:
-Installed/rewired new Alternator with internal regulator, removed external voltage regulator and crispy harness. New Ignition switch and removed over-wired ign circuit (non-fused, fire waiting to happen). Engine starts off the key.

-Installed Pertronix, sprinkled a drop or two of beer on the old points and bid farewell. New ignition wires (8mm). Cap/rotor

...engine still runs poorly.

Turning attention to Webers. Butter flies do not open anywhere near simultaneously between forward and rear carbs: 2 minute video here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21924146@N03/7158175507/in/photostream

Backfire through forward carb.

Ask: Is there a basic guide to setting up Webers? Neither carb is sitting on their respective idle screws. jet sizes (with my poor eye sight) appear to have "175" stamped on the jets.

Previous owner/mechanic was smoking crack when working on the car. Distributor cap was 180 degrees turned, then piece of the cap broken off to get cap to sit on the distributor...I'm taking nothing for granted.
 
I see a classic pattern of PO dating the mechanic's ex wife there.
No other explanation.

Good luck Tom, sounds like you are making great progress.
 
Your question

on the spacer is yes it needs to be there. The butterflies when in motion traverse the opening.

Your video:

1. The carbs need spring washers under the nuts. To check for vacuum leaks is the first thing one must do. You have some funky vacuum lines like on the rear carb going off to I can't see where nor why. Take some more pictures if you can't decipher what they are so we can help.

2. Spitting through the carb is a lean ( improper fuel mixture) condition. Check and record your float level then clean all the jets. Start at the front carb and concentrate there.

3. Once you can start the thing and warm it up make sure your timing is correct. 95% of carb problems are timing/ ignition .

Shut it down.

Disconnect the linkages by the bolts on the main horizontal bar. Find the throttle screws and count how far out form closed they are by carefully screwing each one in the return them to where you started. Are they close or is one much different?

Webers have a set range of opening to jet size. Clean jet size should be emphasized. If there is indication that a jet change is needed then by all means do it but first record what you have started with.

Start it back up and see if the openings can be changed to get the car to run and sound smooth. Yes, you may use your ear, a tube, a meter, etc. if you're unfamiliar with this baseline balance. Use your eyes on a fixed engine part.

Once the basic- it runs good is done, then you can reconnect or tighten the throttle brackets to the horizontal bar. if there's a lot of play in that or any of the linkage- it has to be dealt with. The drawback to webers is that funky bracket that tightens by squeezing on the main rod.

The rear carb linkage has a thumbwheel to balance the bar which makes upp for a small amount of linkage play. More than a little and you get to start over. Don't pass go, directly back to jail.

Lubricate all joints, linkages, bearings/ bushes, etc. Remove all play except a tiny bit to make sure the throttles return to idle everytime.
 
VbigDog

In case needed--I have an un-used clutch master that was rebuilt a few years ago by BIMMER Doc--Carl Nelson--for my replacement cost of $125.
 
2 fuel pumps?

Is it normal to have 2 fuel pumps? An electric mounted on the firewall, and a mechanical driven off the cam shaft? Fuel pressure (engine running) is 6 to 7 psi. From previous posts, i beleive the fuel pressure should be 2.5 to 3.5psi - is that the concensus?

Carbs are fairly dirty, so just to make my life yet more complicated, I've ordered rebuild kits, and choke wil be converted from the water driven, to electric chokes.

Porsche61, thank you. Will print your procedure, and folow to the letter.

(clutch slave all good).
 
No

to two fuel pumps ( Well almost ,see comment below). Could be someone dummied up the mechanical if it went bad, so check.

Nothing wrong though to add a switch to the electric to pre prime for cars that sit for long periods or you live in a climate like Tuscon.

Fuel psi for carbs- 2,1/2 to 3. No more.

Could definately be contributing to your problems.
 
You can pick up an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at your local autoparts store - might be worth a try.

Regards,
James
 
Ordered a fuel pressure regulator, and 0-15 psi fuel pressure gauge (I can't seem to find a 0-5 psi resolution gauge)

Status:
-Pulled both carbs and ordered rebuild kits w Electric chokes from Redline. They are both filthy and have been "messed" with previously. I don't trust any aspect of either carb.

-Linkage was not free when short links between the throttle bar and carbs were removed: problem is/was binding under the mechanical fuel pump:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21924146@N03/7348775400/in/photostream

-Carb choke butter flies are not operating correctly and appear to have linkage issues.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21924146@N03/7163561493/in/photostream/

If there is a Weber rebuild expert in the greater Boston Mass, USA area - please send a referral? If not, I'll attempt a rebuild myself. Candidly, I couldn't do any worse than current state.

2.5psi regulator due tomorrow AM.
 
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Which pressure regulator did you get? I have heard bad things about the cheapo dial ones leaking gas. I am looking for one also and am leaning towards a Holley 1-4psi one.
 
Mmmm..

I sense you're frustrated. Take a deep breath. There's always help available.

Please place a folded towel over your fender for paint protection.

Videos are good.....

1. The carb that you believe to be a problem with the choke flaps is working correctly. The first is not. Both carbs should be open or easily opened at normal ambient temps.

Disconnect the choke linkage to see if it's the flaps, just needs cleaned, or some how got manhandled.

2. Those carbs are progressive. that means the front butterfly or linkage has to open far enough to release the rear barrel/ butterfly. Simulate this by opening wide the linkage and see if the other back barrel/ butterfly is free to operate.

Tip- there is on the market a conversion kit. It changes the rear to open with the front essencially making the carb a 38. Esentially, a little more weeeeeee in your go. Save that for the advanced lessons.

3. Clean is the mantra. I suggest you buy one of those large disposable aluminum turkey roasting pans for $2. ( No not your wife's unless you first get permission.) Everything you take off stays in the pan unless your idea of fun is chasing stray parts. Clear off plenty of work space, each part cleaned put on a clean ( garage) towel to aid in reassembly. Cover your parts with another towel in case your neighbor's cat is curious or interested in helping.

4. Compressed air and soaking- I use acetone now. The old cleaners were nasty caustic stuff. Not any more. Soak- anything that has a passage, orfice, has to be clean. Or you get to start over.

5. I use a dremel to polish things up/ get the really stubborn stuff off.

6. If you have a blaster- soda is the secret word. No glass, no way. Never around any engine part that can get to your oil. Never.

Once you get one stripped.. there's more. Just post your progress for the ones that come later. There's no magic, just a few tricks and tips.

You'll be smiling and singing the praises of carbs soon enough.
 
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