73 csl batmobile FS in No Cal, $130K

[RonP]

I know you guys want to think you know all about these rare CSLs as far as the values go, but I know David had an offer for $125,000 and turned it down-now that is from a reliable source. As you know, I will be up front when I am guessing as I did in my previous post. I will try and get the selling price of the Alpina (if in fact it did sell, although it seems irrelevent). And, as Chic says, it is such a rare beast that it is hard to compare to other CSLs. I only referenced those two cars to show that there are people still out there spending money, just very cautiously.

If you would, EastsideM3, please firm up if you do know for a fact that the Inka CSL did NOT sell. I know the keyboard is a hard place to see if any emotion is there, but I do mean my comment to be kindhearted.

 

[dp]

Would someone chime in on what they believe the current value of this car is? The market seems to be softening on everything, but where do these rare csl's fall into place? One of two series 2 bat. Will the bats ever reach the levels of the RS Porsche?
At what price level does this car sell quickly?

It is impossible to answer your question with a dollar number based on a few fotos. NO one who knows these cars would publicly declare a value on the car based on those few fotos (unless they had vested interest in misleading an uneducated market.) But to answer your question, the car sells at a price level that is realistic to 1) its condition + 2) the seller's expectation of "worth" + 3) what someone's willing to pay. But I just got to say, the constant UNINFORMED chatter about "value" at best can only inflate an honest seller's expectation of "worth", but at worst can and will be seen by an opportunist to get/take "what the market will bear"...and an opportunist may not be an honest seller. caveat emptor

A few months ago the chatterboxes on this list thought the Japanese seller of a known racer with known Motorsport driver-owned provenance was offering a great car at a fair price. THAT car had scads of gorgeous fotos, someone from down under flys out to inspect the car last fall for a friend and finds a car with rotten bulkheads and rockers. Was that car "worth" 90 grand? Who knows? It didn't sell to the Aussie who dropped a couple of g's to have it inspected, And if it sold to any one of the (apparently many) experts online, no one's telling are they? I wonder how many of us got multiple "make an offer" e-mails from that seller after enquiring about it? I got so tired of zero answers from that seller about specific questions, zero fotos from the seller when requesting specific photos, and constant "make an offer" e-mails that I wound up putting that seller's e-mail into my spam filter. --shrug-- 8)

 

[eastsideM3]

I know you guys want to think you know all about these rare CSLs as far as the values go, but I know David had an offer for $125,000 and turned it down-now that is from a reliable source. As you know, I will be up front when I am guessing as I did in my previous post. I will try and get the selling price of the Alpina (if in fact it did sell, although it seems irrelevent). And, as Chic says, it is such a rare beast that it is hard to compare to other CSLs. I only referenced those two cars to show that there are people still out there spending money, just very cautiously.

If you would, EastsideM3, please firm up if you do know for a fact that the Inka CSL did NOT sell. I know the keyboard is a hard place to see if any emotion is there, but I do mean my comment to be kindhearted.

As of two weeks ago neither car was sold. If they have sold since then, I would guess the board would know about it by now?
The seller of the black bat had an offer of 125 and he is asking 130? Wow, wouldnt bend under 4% to sell the car. Thats suprising.

 

[eastsideM3]

Would someone chime in on what they believe the current value of this car is? The market seems to be softening on everything, but where do these rare csl's fall into place? One of two series 2 bat. Will the bats ever reach the levels of the RS Porsche?
At what price level does this car sell quickly?

It is impossible to answer your question with a dollar number based on a few fotos. NO one who knows these cars would publicly declare a value on the car based on those few fotos (unless they had vested interest in misleading an uneducated market.) But to answer your question, the car sells at a price level that is realistic to 1) its condition + 2) the seller's expectation of "worth" + 3) what someone's willing to pay. But I just got to say, the constant UNINFORMED chatter about "value" at best can only inflate an honest seller's expectation of "worth", but at worst can and will be seen by an opportunist to get/take "what the market will bear"...and an opportunist may not be an honest seller. caveat emptor

A few months ago the chatterboxes on this list thought the Japanese seller of a known racer with known Motorsport driver-owned provenance was offering a great car at a fair price. THAT car had scads of gorgeous fotos, someone from down under flys out to inspect the car last fall for a friend and finds a car with rotten bulkheads and rockers. Was that car "worth" 90 grand? Who knows? It didn't sell to the Aussie who dropped a couple of g's to have it inspected, And if it sold to any one of the (apparently many) experts online, no one's telling are they? I wonder how many of us got multiple "make an offer" e-mails from that seller after enquiring about it? I got so tired of zero answers from that seller about specific questions, zero fotos from the seller when requesting specific photos, and constant "make an offer" e-mails that I wound up putting that seller's e-mail into my spam filter. --shrug-- 8)

I understand what you mean. I guess what Im finding is that noone really has an idea of what the market is. Chicane is posting sales of cars from 3 and 6 years ago??!How could that be any indication of where the cars are today? Ive personally spoken to people that have paid over 100K for cars in this apparent condition, one here and one in the UK (Munich Legends). Ron is a former car salesman, so can we believe anything he says?! :lol: (just kidding). I guess the market is like you said what someone is willing to pay, and what someone is willing to sell for based on condition, history, etc. There is just too few cars around to determine a "current" market.

 

[coupeguy]

Right hand bats? That shows in depth knowledge of the coupe world, there were NONE. I simply report what happened to me to help others, your skepticism should be directed to the sellers I have had experience with and told the rest of this forum about. Not interested in a pissing match, there are good sellers, Max, Mesa, Coupeking and maybe others and there are bad sellers. I dont make this stuff up. As for the value of this car, its worth what the seller can get, and nothing more or less. I would be VERY surprised if Cary Idas car actually sold for $450k, the maket for very good, very rare cars seems to be still in the 100k's, but if anyone can get info out of Canepa they're better at extracting info than I am. I dont know what their criteria is for answering inquiries, but I somehow did not meet that criteria. Go ahead, take a cheap shot someone.

For some odd reason, the RHD Bats don't bring the money that LHDs do. I wouldn't weigh all of my opinions on what coupeguy says as I have yet to see him say anything positive about any seller as of yet. That to me alone is suspicous. I don't know David Baker, nor have I ever had any dealings with him, so without an inspection of this particular car I would err on the side of Caveat Emptor. IF....the car did check out and everything is in order, I do personally think his car is priced fairly especially if you compare it to Chris Provo's car, which is also a very rare series one car that sold last July for $125,000 and now is for sale again http://www.coupeking.com/product_main.php?product_id=470&image_id=1235249572

and maybe Peter can chime in here and tell us if the car has been sold again for that price. I can only assume that since the CSL has been moved from the for sale section of Peter's website to the cars of interest, that it has now sold again for $125,000.

My $.02FWIW

 

[RonP]

Right hand bats? That shows in depth knowledge of the coupe world, there were NONE

I meant RHD CSLs, thanks for the BBQ.

 

[dp]

<snip> There is just too few cars around to determine a "current" market.

Wrong conclusion. You just cannot go on the internet and with 4 keystrokes get an answer, you "can" find ranges of dollar values on the internet that are not unreasonable (Old Cars Price Guide, Hagerty, etc) but to be fair you must pay close attention to condition descriptions. The condition descriptions in "Old Cars Price Guide" are detailed enough to give an idea why it is simply not possible to say "this car is worth that amount" on the internet, it has NOTHING to do with how many examples are available, have sold, or will sell. It has everything to do with a hobby and real goods that cannot be evaluated without actually physically examining them.

caption : how much is this house worth?

 

[eastsideM3]

<snip> There is just too few cars around to determine a "current" market.

Wrong conclusion. You just cannot go on the internet and with 4 keystrokes get an answer, you "can" find ranges of dollar values on the internet that are not unreasonable (Old Cars Price Guide, Hagerty, etc) but to be fair you must pay close attention to condition descriptions. The condition descriptions in "Old Cars Price Guide" are detailed enough to give an idea why it is simply not possible to say "this car is worth that amount" on the internet, it has NOTHING to do with how many examples are available, have sold, or will sell. It has everything to do with a hobby and real goods that cannot be evaluated without actually physically examining them.

caption : how much is this house worth?

Well in contrast to what your saying, a market can be determined by recent sales, just like a house. Sure whats inside the house, or in this case a car, can adjust the price up or down. Of course noone can give an exact dollar amount for what a car is like this is worth (even with a physical inspection), and what I was interested in, was the range at which these cars have sold at recently. I was pretty sure I answered my own question, just wanted to know if anyone else was ever involved with one of these cars recently.

 

[dp]

Well in contrast to what your saying, a market can be determined by recent sales, just like a house. Sure whats inside the house, or in this case a car, can adjust the price up or down. Of course noone can give an exact dollar amount for what a car is like this is worth (even with a physical inspection), and what I was interested in, was the range at which these cars have sold at recently. I was pretty sure I answered my own question, just wanted to know if anyone else was ever involved with one of these cars recently.

:evil:
Wrong again. Apparently you were not asking for an answer, you were looking for agreement with what you already think. You won't get that from me. If as you say now you were looking for recent sales range, you should have said so then
The legitimate price trackers (like old cars price guide) do a reasonable job of market watch. Of course, you're likely to reject this too, since "they cannot track all the cars sold" ... but they do a heck of a lot better job at it than you are with a few minutes of keyboard time on some goofy unmoderated bulletin board on the internet.

 

[eastsideM3]

Well in contrast to what your saying, a market can be determined by recent sales, just like a house. Sure whats inside the house, or in this case a car, can adjust the price up or down. Of course noone can give an exact dollar amount for what a car is like this is worth (even with a physical inspection), and what I was interested in, was the range at which these cars have sold at recently. I was pretty sure I answered my own question, just wanted to know if anyone else was ever involved with one of these cars recently.

:evil:
Wrong again. Apparently you were not asking for an answer, you were looking for agreement with what you already think. You won't get that from me. If as you say now you were looking for recent sales range, you should have said so then
The legitimate price trackers (like old cars price guide) do a reasonable job of market watch. Of course, you're likely to reject this too, since "they cannot track all the cars sold" ... but they do a heck of a lot better job at it than you are with a few minutes of keyboard time on some goofy unmoderated bulletin board on the internet.

sorry double posted go to page three for reply..

 

[eastsideM3]

Well in contrast to what your saying, a market can be determined by recent sales, just like a house. Sure whats inside the house, or in this case a car, can adjust the price up or down. Of course noone can give an exact dollar amount for what a car is like this is worth (even with a physical inspection), and what I was interested in, was the range at which these cars have sold at recently. I was pretty sure I answered my own question, just wanted to know if anyone else was ever involved with one of these cars recently.

:evil:
Wrong again. Apparently you were not asking for an answer, you were looking for agreement with what you already think. You won't get that from me. If as you say now you were looking for recent sales range, you should have said so then
The legitimate price trackers (like old cars price guide) do a reasonable job of market watch. Of course, you're likely to reject this too, since "they cannot track all the cars sold" ... but they do a heck of a lot better job at it than you are with a few minutes of keyboard time on some goofy unmoderated bulletin board on the internet.

Yes I wouldnt agree with you nor am I looking for you to agree with me. I told you the homework I did, take it for what you think its worth. I have no vested interest in selling this car, just have spent the last few months trying to educate myself on establishing some sort of current and future value of these cars before making a possible purchase, and I would certainly think recent sales would establish that somewhat. Whats happening now is far more important to me than what happened two to three years ago.
Using your analogy of the real estate market, homes arent worth the same they were three years ago or even one year ago in most cases are they? A publication doesnt have the most up to date info as say doing a comp for a real estate appraisal would it? So finding out what a recent sale (within 3 months) wouldnt constitute establishing some sort of market for a car like this if described in somewhat similar condition? I would think it would (even in a range of condition), and I would certainly try and establish a starting price of where I would want to try and buy it at, thus my interest in others input of price range had they known of any recent sales. Another point, with so few of these cars going to auctions and privately trading, I would put even less merit in a publications assessment. Anyone with collector car insurance, would know this...